10 | Let Go Of The Outcome with Mike Trubetskov

Meet Dr. Mike Metal – biochemist-turned-metal producer, touring guitarist, mixing engineer, and mentor to heavy bands chasing their own unique sound. In this episode, we dive into the art of creating safe creative spaces, building a career in a niche genre, and why letting go of the outcome can change everything. Mike shares insights on AI tools, his upcoming synth course, and the real value of mentorship in music.

 

If you’d like to see more, you can follow Mike on instagram; @ doctor_mike_metal

 

This episode was recorded on 26th April 2025 on the lands of the Woiworung Peoples. We hope that this episode inspires you as a creative person and as a human being.

Thanks for listening, catch you on the next episode.

Psst! We are always on the lookout for creative people to share their story and inspire others. Have you got someone in mind who would love to have a chat? Get in contact with us via Instagram @throughthecreativedoor

 

…

Creative resources from Mike:

Podcasts:

Courses:

Diary planner / scheduler tool:

 

Let’s get social:

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/throughthecreativedoor/ 

TikToc: https://www.tiktok.com/@ttcdpodcast

 

CREDITS

Created and Hosted by Alexis Naylor

Music by Alexis Naylor & Ruby Miguel

Edited and Produced by Ruby Miguel

 Hello, my name is Alexis Nailer, and I am your host here at Through The Creative Door. On behalf of myself and my guests, I would like to acknowledge the traditional owners and custodians on which this podcast is recorded and produced. May we pay our respects to all First Nations people and acknowledge elders past and present.

 

On this podcast, I'll be chatting to an array of creative guests, getting a glimpse into their worlds and having some honest and inspiring conversations along the way. I'm delighted to welcome you to Through The Creative Door.

 

Hi Alex. How about today? 

 

I'm very well. How are you? Really 

 

good. Oh my goodness. Excited to be here. 

 

Thank you so much for letting us come through your creative door. 

 

Appreciate it. Oh, thank you for coming. I think there's a lot to share. 

 

Who are listening, I just spoke to you off mic about how amazing your couch is.

 

Yeah. I feel like every producer, that's just like a given that you're gonna have a comfy couch. 

 

Oh yeah. Absolutely. That you can just Nestle 

 

That's right. 

 

I think it's a good, uh, segue into the conversation. Yes. Because I noticed that some of my friends who don't play music that often come here and become inspired just by sitting here on the couch and they instantly want to pick up a guitar.

 

Like my musicians, uh, my clients come and I do the mix or we do something, track vocals, and then just sit here, chill, take the instrument. They play the gym. So somehow this plays. That I have constructed, I guess, uh, it inspires people and it channels their creativity here. Dunno why. Maybe it's. Comfy. Maybe you can let go here.

 

It's all of the above. It's the vibe. It's the fact that you have Yeah. This beautiful studio. Mm-hmm. Um, but before we launch into questions Yeah. Yeah. I just wanna do a lovely synopsis of you 'cause you are such a talented bear. 

 

I appreciate it. 

 

You are such a talented bear. Your, your start of creative spark started from classical piano when you were a kid.

 

Yeah. You've toured and been a gun on Qatar. I have. Yeah. You've been in lots of bands. 

 

Yeah, a few. 

 

And you are in this amazing space. And now as I wanna say, like AKA, what is it, Mike? 

 

Yeah, 

 

the, the, uh, master of metal, 

 

I don't know about that. Um

 

But you specialize nowadays. Yes. In. You know, curating in developing Yeah.

 

And helping people. Yes. To find their sound as a metal, like hard, you know, music. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, in that space. A 

 

A hundred percent. A hundred percent. 

 

And one of the beautiful things that I love about what you are doing is not only are you being a producer and audio engineer in that space, but you're also, you know, putting up.

 

Uh, and holding space to be able to mentor people and help them through their journey as well. Yeah. Which is so beautiful. 

 

That's nice to hear. Thank you for that. But also, I feel like, uh, that mental journey and psychological and the, just the personal inner journey and the music, they come together always.

 

And I even noticed some patterns that some albums for some people, you know, they sometimes are impossible to finish the drag. Uh, and people go in circles and loops and I can see that they need to grow underneath themselves as a person, do some inner A work, and that would be a turning point for the album.

 

So there are such synchrony synchronicities in life. I don't think it's, um, hard to understand why. It's just our brain projects everything everywhere around us. Yeah. So, yeah, that's been important for sure. 

 

Oh, well, I'm very chuffed. And I, I'm, I bit starstruck, so 

 

no, you, if you don't keep your ego in check, you burn and fall down.

 

Yeah. 

 

You, you, you, you stop serving your clients. You start serving your ego not good. 

 

Yeah, 

 

not good. I'm very humble. I, I know how much more I need to learn to do better. We're, you know, we're trying to push the boundaries of the industry altogether, so. You can only be as good as you yourself, but then the others are doing better.

 

There will always be someone doing better. You have to strive and go there always. So I keep learning when I have the time. Different things, business aspects, uh, musical creative aspects. I keep playing guitar even though I don't have time properly, but I keep learning what is current so that I can help my clients become more current as well altogether.

 

Yeah. 

 

Um, mixing all the time, lessons and mixing has been very hard. And it's been like that field is so competitive, it grows so fast, you've gotta keep on top of it. Otherwise you are not providing your clients the results that are, um, relevant. And if it is irrelevant, then nobody is gonna listen to it and it won't stand out.

 

Well, we were speaking off Mike about. Yeah. Just how competitive this Yeah. Sector is in the music industry. Yes, yes. Um, there's amazing people doing some amazing work like yourself, but Yeah. It's, it doesn't come without a lot of Yes. A lot of work. Yeah. 

 

Yeah, for sure. Well, any non mainstream music is very hard to break in because the budgets are so small.

 

I wish it was different, but you know how we play against Spotify giving what? 2 cents per stream, less 0.0002 equally to rap artists who make millions, tens of millions of streams to pop artists, same or even more. And then to small indie bands like world, uh, kind of music or jazz music, which makes thousand streams.

 

What's the revenue? And, uh, so there is no contribution based on the genre, based on its complexity. So simpler genres to produce like, well, I'm, I'm not gonna. You know, shit on any genres, but some, like EDM or rap music is produced much, much faster than your Indie Prague, for instance. Much faster, like 10, 10, sometimes a hundred times faster.

 

Why is it being not, uh, you know, weighted in terms of payments. Yeah. So that's the world we live in. We have to 

 

adjust. Yeah. Pivot. 

 

Mm-hmm. 

 

Yes. Well, speaking of pivoting, 

 

yeah. 

 

Let's launch into the first question. 

 

Alright. 

 

What does the creative space mean to you and why? 

 

Uh, yeah. I was thinking about that because at first I couldn't understand because I have this space always at hand, right?

 

I live and work here. But then, then I realized that the first thing that comes to mind is safety, creative space is the space where you feel safe. To start creating because that can be a intimidating, fragile process because I think making music, being a musician is different from lots of thinking things in this world because, um, some things in the world are unfair, right?

 

Um, and then not sort of based on your contribution, but in music it is fair. You are only as good as in amount of work that you've put into master your craft. So the rewards, like respect of others, whatever, will only come based on how hard you work on this. And in order to work hard, you need to have a safe space where you can fail many times.

 

Um, and I was thinking about that, which is very cool. But you know, I've always had some sort of room. When I was a kid, I had my computer, so you can make music on computer, whatever, already a music place. Uh, my guitars, my synth. Just in my room, but it was often interfered with my parents coming in, uh, asking me where the hell is my homework?

 

And stuff like that. And so that created a lot of anxiety, like, I'm not doing the right thing doing music here. Um, and so over time, firstly coming about that within yourself, but then constructing the space that kind of well naturally just allows you to not experience that I think is very important. So safety.

 

In terms of, uh, focus, uh, being in the flow state, no one interrupting, not feeling like someone will come in and, uh, give you bad news and stuff like that. Uh, phone et et cetera. That's what is creative space for me. 

 

Amazing. It's so true that yeah. Being able to be in like a stable space Mm. Allows you to have that room.

 

Yes. And hold space for creativity. Oh, well said. Well said. So my next question 

 

Yeah. 

 

And I feel like this is gonna be, well it's complex 'cause you, you repertoire mm-hmm. And your career thus far is, is vast and wide. Mm. But. If you had to pick something that you are most proud of creating Yeah. What would it be and how did it come about?

 

Yeah, so it's an interesting one. Um, it was hard to pick one 'cause I value my work equally for all of my clients. But I think the mo, the thing that I'm most proud of is my synth course, which is coming up soon. So that's where I think I fulfilled a lot of things that. Um, weren't sort of put together previously, I mean, where I can help people by educating them and put together my experience into some form of knowledge, like blocks, hopefully, I don't know the feedback yet.

 

But then, uh, um, then also creating some cool synth presets and synth lines for, uh, a metal track Pope, just a mashup of a few songs. Uh, yeah, that's something I'm very proud about and I hope that it helps a lot of people 'cause it's, um, you know, not that widespread and metal, uh, knowledge about sins in particular.

 

Uh, it's coming out eventually, uh, hopefully in a month or so. Amazing. We're working with a Christian color, uh, call it Audio Cult. Uh, he's a metal producer from Germany, so we are releasing it with them as soon as they're ready. That will be out there. So 

 

love partnership. 

 

Yeah, 

 

collaboration, not easy 

 

to create.

 

Like the best ones just come organically. 

 

Yeah. 

 

Like this podcast here. 

 

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. So 

 

you know, you stop planning things or reaching out and you just hang out in places where people are around and my connections. 

 

Yeah, exactly. Mm-hmm. 

 

Oh, 

 

love it. 

 

Yeah. On 

 

the flip side of things that you are most proud of.

 

Yeah. 

 

What's something that's challenged your creativity? And how do you think you've best sort of mitigated that? 

 

Yeah, nice one. Uh, lately I've been definitely challenged with scheduling timing and my routine regime and discipline. That's been hard, especially when you start to burn out and things keep piling up because some of the things become out of your control.

 

Deliverables, uh, the amount of inquiries, um, some circumstances. And you just have to manage it all, and it just becomes quite a bit. Uh, so I guess realizing that it becomes a more progressive issue rather than me being shit at scheduling, which seems the case, but then you become better and that thing doesn't really improve.

 

So apparently it's a theme of my work rather than myself. And now the improvement is well. I have a, uh, an assistant, amazing Fabio from Germany. Uh, my good friend and he helps me with, uh, editing session preparation. And I wouldn't be able to be effective enough without him at this level, but I know that I have to give him more in terms so he would be, uh, helping me with my schedule and just being a second person.

 

'cause when you're by yourself, so I also faced a challenge when I'm just by myself. And I'm the one executing decisions, but there is no one to, you know, foolproof me. I can make stupid decisions or I can just become tired. So yeah, guess that's been challenging. And will we'll be doing more work with Fabio, but also there's a system called Motion.

 

It's an AI calendar, which Fabio introduced me to as well. It's like a hundred bucks a year or something. So you basically generate the structure of your projects. Uh, AI sort of gives you ideas how you break eight hour mix into. Two large chunks, one small chunk, add revisions, uh, add feedback from the client, and all of these things circle back automatically into your calendar and you can just tick them off as you go.

 

So having that kind of structure in place, uh, has been helping me, but then I burn out quickly when this happens. So, you know, things like that. 

 

Yeah. But amazing, that tool that's, um, amazing that you Emotion Yeah, yeah, emotion. 

 

It's good. So anyone's struggling with, uh, being organized that can help. It's not necessary.

 

You can just use your ordinary calendar, but can definitely help if you need improvement. 

 

Especially to what, like you said, bite size. Yeah. A larger project. 

 

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And 

 

especially in your line of work where you need to make sure that you rest your ears. Mm-hmm. You know? Mm-hmm. And to have scheduled breaks, it's probably, yes, I would say really beneficial to give you a bit more of a, a defined line to be like, oh, no.

 

X amount of hours. Hours. That's it. Yeah. 

 

That's it. Yeah. That's it. That's it. Yeah. That's it. 

 

Do you ever find, um,

 

do you ever find it difficult to schedule time to rest your ears between listening 

 

a hundred percent. You get excited, you get into the zone, you get carried away, and then you wake up three hours later realizing that you can't hear shit. I've been there, and then I wake up next morning and I still can't hear shit.

 

Yeah. And so it's not fun. What, what's what, what do you do in those situations? 

 

You start to try getting excited about something in the song because when you can't hear anything, it means that you lose, uh, the mental focus. Um, so you, if you start sort of finding that excitement again in some element.

 

You're like, oh no, it's actually a cool reef like, or a cool guitar lick. Uh, it, uh, gives you that energy that the song needs and off that you can start resonating in there. So, but, but to be honest, you should have, I should have taken instead of all of that a day off. Yeah. Just as simple as that. But, 

 

and I think because as creatives we are self-motivating, self propelling.

 

Where, you know, you, you can always be doing something for our businesses. Yeah. It is hard sometimes to schedule that time. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. We were speaking off Mike about mm-hmm. You know, having time off and Yes. And days and working x amount of days in a row. But I think the messaging that, you know, we keep circling back to as creatives is like, it's just as important for us to s to schedule.

 

It breaks and time off. 

 

Yes, a hundred percent. As 

 

much as it is to absolutely, you know, obviously look after our projects. 

 

Absolutely. But I gotta say that, uh, I accepted that I need to work more. Um, and I'm okay with that because this work fuels me and drives me, and it's not draining. I mean, obviously it's a job, so some parts would be, uh, complicated and consuming your resources.

 

But the reason I'm doing this in the first place is I can not do it. And so this drives me so much and for any creative, it's a fuel as well. So, uh, I guess my message is about the burnout and because at some point everyone will experience burnout if they're serious about their career. 'cause they will be pushing it so hard.

 

But to me, that burnout, yeah, physically it's a bit tough and you need time off, but mentally it's, it's fine. It's still, you are doing what you love. It's worth it. Hmm. And so you can just get down about, oh, I'm so burnt out. I don't like it anymore. But in reality, just remember how good the thing is in the first place.

 

So much worth it. 

 

Yeah. And also it's, it's all about the, uh, tapestry of learning, right? Like you learn how to be resilient. Yeah. And how to be better at it. That's right. The next time round. That's right. Always, always, always. 

 

Yeah. 

 

Now. We are in a space at the moment where you have lots of amazing toys. 

 

Mm.

 

And gadgets. 

 

I know. Mm. Let's, right. 

 

But I'm curious, is there something, an object mm-hmm. 

 

Or 

 

a 

 

thing Mm. 

 

That you can't live without when you are creating? 

 

Yeah. There are two things that I, uh. I thought about because at first it was like a cohesive place and I, I don't really make music elsewhere. Yeah. When I try, when, when I have my laptop, it's not really working.

 

But, so there are two things. One is a musical instrument and another one is an object that has some memories, which would be cool to share. But for, uh, a thing that I create the best with and I'm most excited about when I touch, uh, I mean, I love my guitar for sure, but that, that's my profit here. Yes, so profit ref too.

 

When I was choosing a synth a few years back, I was still doing my lab work and I, I was working four days a week, uh, had some money, uh, making it that lab. And so I was pouring it into my business and I was searching for a synth and I went to the shop and I was playing them. And this one, I just get stuck into it for 30 minutes and I was.

 

Oh, I need to get the thing. It's that good. Literally like nothing else excited me as much because I'm a piano player. This is a very musical kind of synth, and even though I am not using it all the time, it's a bit retro sounding. It's still amazing. 

 

Amazing. So, 

 

but, but I use it all the time for media work, right.

 

For other things. So the keyboard is great. So that musical instrument is sick, but yeah. Um, 

 

and your second, yeah. 

 

Yeah. It's this thing here. No one knows about it. This is funny. So these things, I mean, 

 

is it Lego? 

 

No, it's not. So these are the blocks. 

 

Oh, um, it's foam, 

 

yeah. Foam blocks, you know. So these are valuable objects to me because you get one block.

 

Um, so I got two. 

 

Yeah. 

 

By writing down 5,000 words of your thesis at a thesis bootcamp at university. So these are two, so I wrote 10 over the weekend. There were people who wrote 40,000 words. I only did 10. Yeah, it's a physics bootcamp, right? So just to finish your PhD, you, they lock yourself with other students, they provide meals and you just dump it out.

 

Wow. 

 

Yeah. And so this is a sentimental object for me, because you don't get that thing that easily. 

 

Oh my goodness. And I love that you have it sitting in your studio. Yeah. 

 

Well, to remember that. I've done quite a bit to get here, you know? 

 

Yeah. 

 

You all forget sometimes. 

 

What a beautiful anchor. What a beautiful anchor.

 

I love that. Thank you so much for sharing that. My pleasure. 

 

No one knows about it. 

 

Oh my God. Well, people are gonna know about it now. That's 

 

good. Never had an opportunity. 

 

Oh, I love it. Now if you could give, 

 

yeah. 

 

One piece of advice, one nugget of gold to another creative, another human being, what would it be?

 

You, if you wanna make it in the music or whatever you call it, you wanna let it go, let go of the outcome, let go of the idea of making it. It's no such a thing. Many people talk about that and it's, uh, easy to, for the establish that people to talk about making it, it's very hard for someone who is a hobbyist or just starting out or on the, you know.

 

Plateau of their career, which can take years for me, it took like four years at least, maybe more. Um, for them to say, let go of the outcome is hard, but you have to because the idea of making music is enjoying, making music, enjoying sharing your music with others, enjoying performing music, enjoying creating records, whatever it is for you.

 

Videos. Uh, enjoying that process, enjoying learning, enjoying getting better, enjoying getting results, not enjoying being big known or famous or whatever. I've had that thought in the past. It's no point because that, that thing, it doesn't exist in the moment. It doesn't in the moment. Uh, all that exists is when you let go.

 

You forget about everything. You're in the flow, you're making music, and it is cool. And you can't do that without limits when you can make that space for yourself. I think that's it. So, 

 

oh, well said. Now, before, when we were talking about, um, obviously time management and things, and you, um, showed, uh, spoke about a amazing tool that your friend put you onto.

 

Yeah. But if we could talk about, is there any, of course. You have got amazing, uh. This course that you are gonna come up. 

 

Yeah. Yeah. Eventually. Yeah. But for you, 

 

if you could put forth for anyone who wants to do what you do. Yeah. Or develop their creative process mm-hmm. In some way. 

 

Mm-hmm. 

 

Is there any resources Yes.

 

That you would recommend that someone could, uh, a book to read a course to do videos to watch? 

 

A hundred percent. A hundred percent I'll recommend a podcast. It is called Six Figure Creative Podcast. It's an American podcast, which is relatively old. I think they started maybe 2016 or 17 or maybe even earlier, but it's an old one.

 

There are two seasons. First season is Golden, uh, by Brian Hood and Chris Graham. Brian Hood is an American producer who made, uh, a six figure home studio. Back in the day, and then he started teaching others how to do that with all the resources, technical stuff, systems, lots of that. That's very useful to implement in.

 

Well, anything you wanna manage. Tools like Trello, CRM Systems, following up with clients pricing systems. Uh, then lots of inspiration by, by Chris Graham. Who is a great, uh, American mastering engineer, and the second, uh, season is just Brian Hood himself. But it's all very useful. So for anyone who needs to put into some systems and, um, structure in their music or creative process, that's a podcast for you for sure.

 

Another thing that I would like to share is, um, well there is for people who want to do metal, uh, I recommend Unstoppable Recording Machine, the URM. And nail the mix. That's, uh, um, I would say so I neglected that place for some time and then I finally become a member and I went through a year of intensive one-on-ones.

 

My mixes got roasted big time, and uh, I saw some flaws in my work and I became better. 

 

Amazing. And 

 

now I'm better. I'm still not the best. At all. 

 

We're always evolving. 

 

That thing was humbling and that was, I would say it's a must for anyone who wants to do metal just because it's a closed, private community with, uh, all the resources that, uh, like multi-tracks, video walkthroughs of, uh, mixing.

 

Um, and it's about getting the best of the best. Share the tips and tricks and approaches and just taking what you like and implementing and learning how you can do your thing based on that. Mm-hmm. So. I, I think it's indispensable and I should do more of it. I mean, I've done a bit lately, but I just time.

 

Yeah, but you have to So that, uh, they also have a podcast where they interview those producers. It's a URM podcast and, uh, for letting go and things like that. I would recommend, there's a guy on YouTube called, called Aaron Doty. Um, and he gives some guided meditations for 30, 40, 20 minutes. It's amazing. I highly recommend that.

 

Amazing. And for those listening, you need to listen to or watch your YouTube videos. 

 

Yeah, they can as well. Um, and 

 

they are so informative about, um, you know, your, what, what would I call it? Um, your journey. You are so informative about, you know, recording about. Presets. Yeah, you are. Yeah. Very talented bear.

 

I appreciate it. 

 

Sharing knowledge. 

 

Yeah. 

 

Now, one last question. 

 

Mm. 

 

If you could have anyone come on this podcast and answer these questions. Yeah. Who would it be and why? 

 

Uh, two people come in mind there. There is a guy in Melbourne, his name is Dan bna, and he does mixing and producing in Dolby Atmos. Ooh, yes.

 

He also has a podcast he's launching about at work. Um, and he's been around for a bit, uh, doing film, audio, film, uh, scoring and, uh, transitioning from film audio to Dolby Atmo audio. And, uh, he can talk about creativity and spatial positioning of the sound and different format, how that, uh, affects the person and their, um, perception of music.

 

So, plus he's very creative of designing and building his spaces. Dolby Atmas, um, is quite a bit, as you know, few speakers around the place, and he's moved quite a few times. So it would be great to talk about that. And then, uh, I also have a friend called, uh, named Matt Wickens. And so, uh, he's a drummer and he's also a mental health, uh, enthusiast coach, and he's on his journey of helping people.

 

Uh, and I think he's just an amazing guy and I think you could share so much love in this podcast as well. 

 

Oh, amazing. Well, I'll have to go and yeah. Google them and stalk them and find out more about them. 

 

Yeah. 

 

Oh my goodness. Mike, you have been such a legend. 

 

I appreciate your time. Oh my 

 

goodness. Thank you so much.

 

This is, uh, just, uh, what a beautiful chat. 

 

Appreciate it.

 

Thanks for tuning in for another episode of Through The Creative Door. If you enjoy our episodes and find value in them, consider supporting us by making a donation. Just visit buy me a coffee.com/through the creative door, or buy the link in our Instagram buy where you can choose an amount and even write us a little message.

 

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Bye.