24 | Challenges Are Opportunities To Get Creative with Blake Williams

In this episode of Through the Creative Door, Alexis sits down with Blake Williams, a true creative powerhouse from Perth, Western Australia. Blake wears many hats, from his role as a radio announcer at Mix94.5 to being the director of Williams Creative, frontman and manager of corporate band PROOF, and producer/host of the nationally broadcasted music interview show The Scene. They dive into Blake's diverse career, exploring how he balances multiple creative roles and what keeps him inspired and moving forward. Whether it's his insights on managing creativity in the music industry, his thoughts on building meaningful collaborations and connections, or his approach to staying grounded in the chaos of it all, Blake shares his wealth of knowledge with energy and optimism. 

If you’d like to see more, you can follow Blake on Instagram: @ blakewilliams_au 

 

This episode was recorded on 27 August 2024 on the lands of the Wajuk Peoples. We hope that this episode inspires you as a creative person and as a human being.

Thanks for listening, catch you on the next episode.

Psst! We are always on the lookout for creative people to share their story and inspire others. Have you got someone in mind who would love to have a chat? Get in contact with us via Instagram @throughthecreativedoor

 

…

Creative resources from Blake Williams:

@ williamscreativeco 

@ thescenemusictv 

Let’s get social:

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/throughthecreativedoor/ 

TikToc: https://www.tiktok.com/@ttcdpodcast

CREDITS

Created and Hosted by Alexis Naylor

Music by Alexis Naylor & Ruby Miguel

Edited and Produced by Ruby Miguel

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00:09 - Alexis (Host)

Hello, my name is Alexis Naylor and I am your host here at Through the Creative Door. On behalf of myself and my guests, I would like to acknowledge the traditional owners and custodians on which this podcast is recorded and produced. Owners and custodians on which this podcast is recorded and produced. May we pay our respects to all First Nations people and acknowledge Elders, past and present. On this podcast, I'll be chatting to an array of creative guests, getting a glimpse into their worlds and having some honest and inspiring conversations along the way. I'm delighted to welcome you to Through the Creative Door. 

Hello Blake

 

00:51 - Blake (Guest)

Hello Alexis. How are you doing? 

 

00:53 - Alexis (Host)

I'm so good I am all sorts of emotions right now. I'm very, very chuffed that you said yes to coming onto Through the Creative Door. 

 

01:04 - Blake (Guest)

Well, listen, we're talking about creativity, which is something that I do every day, that a lot of people do every day, and it's good to talk about. 

 

01:12 - Alexis (Host)

For those listening. I need to at least even remotely touch the sides with your creative ventures, because you are such a talented bear. 

 

01:21 - Blake (Guest)

I've been around for a while. 

 

01:23 - Alexis (Host)

No, you just. I love that you are such an advocate for the arts but more importantly, you have demonstrated just how much of an advocate you are for live music and for musicians in Western Australia, which, as a musician, it's so lovely to have people that are advocating and pushing that forward. But that is one of many things that you do. Music is your first love, like you're a musician, you're the front man and the manager and everything of the corporate band Proof. 

 

01:57 - Blake (Guest)

Correct. 

 

01:57 - Alexis (Host)

Oh my God, you're an MC, you do radio, but you also do work for ABC sporadically as well. 

 

02:04 - Blake (Guest)

I mean, I think I mean I've been doing this for, you know, 18 years, something around about there and you end up doing a lot of different things and it all kind of seems like the same thing after a while. So, yeah, I'm on air with Mix, I do some freelance stuff with ABC for whatever shows they've got going on. We have a show on Foxtel Music, director of Channel 7's Telethon, run a company called Williams Creative which is half agency, half creative company, and we can talk about what that does because it's a big part of my life. Plus, yeah, proof the Band, and I'm exhausted just thinking about it, to be honest. 

 

02:37

But it's all music, it's all performance, it's all about pushing an industry forward and that's the performance side of my life. There's the other side, which is the advocacy side of not only music but also entertainment, arts and events, and so recently, as the president of the EIA, which is the Event Industry Association, which is all about putting events in front of government and going how do we get funding? How do we change legislation? How do we get grants? How do we make sure that creatives get grants that don't just, you know, fall by the wayside? So there's a lot of things that kind of fill the diary. But it's all positive and it's all in service of arts. 

 

03:11 - Alexis (Host)

Yes, yes, and I think that is the beautiful spark that you have, that that light that you're shining across the world is genuinely that. That is your massive motivator is just pushing the arts forward. 

 

03:30 - Blake (Guest)

Well, thank you, I appreciate it. It's about getting people. I mean it. It never ceases to amaze me that you know, you walk down to the Ellington on a Tuesday night and you see a world class jazz act and you go. This could be on the streets of New York, this could be anywhere in the world, but it's right here in Perth, the most isolated place on the planet. And it's hard because these artists could be anywhere, but they're playing here and to get that appreciation for what they're doing is difficult. 

 

03:51

And in a time when people's lives are so fragmented with the endless amount of entertainment, there are functions on Netflix which are just play something. I don't even want to know what it is, just play something. And when you're competing against so many different streaming services and different mediums, it's really hard to get people to focus on local art sometimes, and people just need to be reminded that this stuff is world class and you can see it any time of the week. And I will go to my deathbed pushing the same message. That's one thing they teach you in PR Find a message and stick to it and that’s what I’ve stuck to. 

 

04:31 - Alexis (Host)

What a message it is. So my first question and you might have multiple answers, but what does a creative space mean to you and why? 

 

04:41 - Blake (Guest)

Creative space. I think, yeah, it's going to be a fragmented answer because I think about sort of what I do and every, every avenue I would have, whether it's this radio studio or a tv studio or something on stage. I mean, they're all in different spaces and they're all completely different and require a different approach, have a different outcome, have a different approach, have a different outcome, have a different budget, have a different set of client expectations. And I think for me, what I've learned over the years is to take my creativity with me wherever I need to be. So this, for example so we're in a radio studio. 

 

05:19

When we're on air, I might have 15 seconds to make a creative break or a creative hook, or jump in between two songs and do something creative for 15 seconds. That's a very different task than being on stage for 45 minutes and creating a 45-minute creative set. So every location has a different set of parameters. I would love to have a creative space in terms of a creative share space office for the company, which is part of our plan in the future. But I think I've discovered over the years that I need to be able to get into my creative spot quickly, no matter where it might be, because sometimes it can be a really boring place. You could be in a pitch, in a whiteboard room with people who are not creative and you need to bring that and you need to show them why they should believe in your vision or hand over a lot of money or whatever the case is, or trust their brand with your crazy idea, and so inspiring people in different circumstances has become a skill set that I've developed over the years, simply because you're given so many different rooms to work in and you need to make it work, no matter where you are. 

 

06:30 - Alexis (Host)

Was there anything that sort of helped you, sort of ground yourself? Was there any tools or anything that you used to help you find that? 

 

06:40 - Blake (Guest)

I think if I kind of work backwards from things. So if I need, let's talk about, say, a creative pitch because we're doing a lot of that in our company, Williams Creative, at the moment where a client will go, we've got a certain amount of money and we want the end result to be a seven minute performance and hitting all of these different markers Go away and come up with a pitch. And sometimes these things are so ambiguous and you spend so much time with just a word. They go okay, base it around the word whatever, and so you come up with three or four different ideas and you then take those ideas into a room and you present those ideas. And I think working backwards and re-inspiring myself when I'm in the pitch moment is really important, because sometimes you'll do all of the creative work months before you do a pitch and then you walk into the pitch room and you're quite disconnected from that project now because you did it. 

 

07:35

So long ago and so we're having this really long lead time. So for me to get myself back into that moment, I would just spend an hour and go through the end result that I want it to be and then back to my processes and how I came to decisions on things and why we should use that color or why that song works, or we're changing this song into this key. We're taking it a major, we're making it into a minor and there's a reason behind it and just getting myself reacquainted and getting myself excited for what I want it to be and hopefully that then it comes down to the communication in the room. Can you sell it? And having different, I think, people. 

 

08:13

Another thing is people in that kind of space. They're often not creatives, the people you're selling these things to, so you can't go in with a lot of words. You need to go with different media. So we'll have a video or imagery or mood boards or sound samples so that one of these things might hit a nerve. Yeah, having different ways to approach the same thing is important from a sales point of view, but, yeah, just being able to jump in and feel excited about your ideas. 

 

08:42 - Alexis (Host)

I love this. It's such a frame of mind for you to go into each of these spaces. 

 

08:48 - Blake (Guest)

I think a frame of mind is a good way to frame it, because Pun intended, pun intended. 

 

08:53

Puns always intended. Because I think you know being a creative means you need to be adaptable and you're not always going to be able to do exactly what you want all of the time. Sometimes you will have a creative project that is yours and you can do whatever you want to, but often, in the world of budgets and having companies and making enough money to pay payroll, which is what we have to do in our company you need to work within parameters that are set for you, and so being able to go in clearly, consciously, and create an idea and run with an idea and jump into that moment is really important. 

 

09:34 - Alexis (Host)

Amazing, amazing. Your lifespan of creative ventures is huge, but is there one thing in particular that you can pinpoint that you're most proud of creating, and how did that come about? 

 

09:49 - Blake (Guest)

I'm really proud of the company we've created around being creative. I mean, the company is called Williams Creative it's right there in the title and I think I've worked in a range of different situations where I haven't enjoyed the people I've had to work with, and that happens every now and then. You might have a project and it's really hard, or you feel like your back's up against the wall and ideas aren't landing, or, whatever the case is, when we started this company two years ago, we really had the opportunity to build it from the ground up in the way that I wanted it to be and the people I wanted to involve round up in the way that I wanted it to be and the people I wanted to involve. And I think now we're at this beautiful point where we have amazing talented people around us, which is one thing, but also people I want to work with and want to work with people again and again because they're good people, and I wish there had been an opportunity for me many years ago to be in something like that, because I think I have always not every project, but a majority of projects I've worked on in my life. 

 

10:51

I've started so I wanted a TV show. No one would give me the opportunity, so I started it myself. I wanted a radio show. No one would. I did it myself. I've simply been in that mode for so long because I haven't. You know, it's not that I'm difficult to work with. I think the opposite, to be honest. But there's you need to back yourself sometimes and do things the way that you see them playing out, and I'm really proud of the way that we've created the company now that we have these great people around us and it's facilitated some really amazing projects. 

 

11:27 - Alexis (Host)

Well said. On the flip side of things that you're proud of, I'm intrigued what you can share about something that's challenged your creativity, and what do you reckon the major lesson of that was? 

 

11:43 - Blake (Guest)

Yeah, okay. So I think live performance often goes awry. I mean there are things, there are processes I've put in place over the years to negate things going wrong as best I can. Things always do go wrong, but it's trying to limit that or at least have plans again to prepare for things to go wrong. But I think, from a challenging creative point of view, sometimes the big concept pieces can be really hard to finalize a concept for. 

 

12:16

So there was one actually, particularly a few years ago, where we had been approached by a company to do a big opening performance for them. So two performances actually on this one night. The brief I was given was one word. I had a one word brief, one word that I had to make everything connect to, and they'd given me a fairly good budget to do it. And I nothing, nothing came like, just nothing at all, and I would spend. I'd go okay, today's the day, I'm going to finalize a basic concept today. Nothing would happen. I would spend an hour on it, I'd spend two hours on it. I would try the technique of like I'm going to think about it when I go to sleep. When I wake up, there's going to be an idea there. Nothing would happen. 

 

12:55

And I was about a week away from having to do this pitch and I had zero, just not even an inkling about what I was going to do. And then it starts to build and you get, you feel pressure, and you feel stress, like what if I actually can't think of anything? What if this concept is, or this word that I need to bring everything back to is just too esoteric and I can't make something for it? And so I said to my wife, I said to Lisa we need to go away, we need to need to get, I need to, I need a change of scenery, I need to get out of the studio, I need to get out of work, I need to get out of Perth. 

 

13:25 - Alexis (Host)

Something's got to change. 

 

13:28 - Blake (Guest)

I need a fresh perspective. So we went down south and the word that I needed to bring everything back to was the word flourish. And we went and stayed in this little cottage in Boronup Forest and in Margaret River and I walked out in the morning and I walked through these trees that were scorched. There'd been a bushfire that had come through and little pops of green were coming through these trees and I sat there for ages and I was like, wait a minute, a little tiny spark of an idea. And from there we sat down, we had a couple of bottles of wine, we went through a bunch of different ideas based on the surroundings that we were in, and eventually, by the time we got home and we drove home thinking about ideas, we got home, put a concept together and it's probably one of the best I think we've ever come up with, but only because I think sometimes you need to force yourself into a different perspective. If things aren't working, that's okay, Pause it. You don't have to solve all of those problems right now. Get up, go to a different spot, go to a different place, try a different technique, a different angle spot. Go to a different place. Try a different technique, a different angle. You know, try something different that you haven't done. 

 

14:30

So for me, on that particular situation, I needed to be geographically removed from where I was and I actually brought this up when I did the pitch. I said I couldn't think of anything and I did this. I went to this other place and then this idea came and someone in the meeting said yeah, but that idea only came to you because you were willing to accept an idea. It's not. If you had been down there all the time would you have seen what was there? 

 

14:54

And I thought it's really interesting how being in a different headspace and being somewhere physically different can bring up different creative ideas. And then it's recognizing that that is an idea and then running with it. And I remember thinking there was like a little tiny spark light bulb moment that went off and went wait a minute, what about this? And that was the start of the entire performance that we ended up putting together, which had about 40 creatives in it on stage, so a big piece that we ended up putting together. So, yeah, it's amazing where that inspiration can hit, but you have to be open and willing to change things up and be flexible. 

 

15:31 - Alexis (Host)

And I do think it's like you know, one of the parts of being a creative is being able to apply yourself and spend the time and be, you know, present in that space to lock yourself away. But we all still need to live a life and otherwise like you said you're not open to being inspired by anything outside. 

 

15:51 - Blake (Guest)

Yeah, it's, I don't. When you find out how to do that, let me know. 

 

15:56 - Alexis (Host)

Oh, I don't know about that. Oh, my goodness. 

 

15:59 - Blake (Guest)

I, we the uh being separating creativity, or separating this kind of work from normal life is incredibly hard, and I don't know anyone that nails it. To be honest, I don't know how you can switch it off and switch it back on. It seeps into every part of your life, but it's hard. It's really hard, especially what I find when we're in pitch mode and everything is to do with a show you're putting together and it doesn't have to be a creative pitch like this, it could be a theatre show. You know, I think it's really natural to get all consumed by these things that you put together, because they are intrinsic to who you are, and, at the end of the day, you're going to be on stage and you need to deliver it, and so you need to live it, eat it and breathe it. That's an important part of it, right? 

 

16:48 - Alexis (Host)

Oh, so true. Now, do you have something sentimental, or is there possibly an object that you can't live without while you're coming up with creative things or working? And what might that be, and why? 

 

17:06 - Blake (Guest)

No, I don't think there is. To be honest, I think again because the creative jobs that I have take me to completely different places with different parameters. There's not something that I come back to again and again. I think if I was doing and I've been religious about these sorts of things before Like, if I was doing a lot of writing when I was younger, when I was at high school, I remember the first thing I did was it was drama and we would write short stories or plays or skits or whatever the case was, and that's what I loved. 

 

17:40

I loved, you know, Monty Python and Fawlty Towers and these sort of, you know, skit-based comedy things. Yes, you know, you'd start an idea and sometimes it would be shit and sometimes it might be half okay, but there was definitely a process in that and we would write every one in the same like journal. It was part of the religiousness of doing something like that and creating something. So if I was doing one thing, I think I would have things that I would go back to, but because in a day I might work on five different projects in five different locations with five different people, there's nothing that I bring myself to. 

 

18:13 - Alexis (Host)

Don't have any lucky socks. I don't. 

 

18:15 - Blake (Guest)

And, to be honest, it's the lucky socks that's been the secret to my success, my Coles $2.50 lucky socks. But I think I actually I purposefully change up my schedule and I don't like to get stuck in the same way of doing things. I like to change the way that I do things, quite often to the point where it can frustrate other people. In theatre, in the theatre world everyone they call it tracks in theatre. So your character track and you leave your green room at a certain point. You go to a certain point on stage. You never change your track. So everyone knows for the backstage choreography. 

 

18:54 - Alexis (Host)

They know exactly where you're going to be at what time. 100% Perfect. 

 

18:57 - Blake (Guest)

When we were doing We Will Rock You at Crown, I would change where I would start not on stage, but I would go to my dressing room at a different time. I would get my mic at a different time. I'd get my makeup at a different time. I never liked to be in the same process. I would change it up every single show. So I never felt comfortable. I never felt complacent and I think that's a big thing for the way I like to operate. I like to be on the edge all the time. It's not good for anxiety and it's not good for trying to sleep after gigs. That's just the way it works. It's just the way it works. I know it's not good. Don't use that advice. 

 

19:35 - Alexis (Host)

What did I say? Do as I say, not as I do. That's right. 

 

19:37 - Blake (Guest)

Yeah, these are all the mistakes I've made. 

 

19:42 - Alexis (Host)

Well, that is a great segue into my next question. 

 

19:46 - Blake (Guest)

What other mistakes have you made? Top 10 bad things to do. 

 

19:52 - Alexis (Host)

If you could give one piece of advice, one nugget of gold to another creative, what would it be? 

 

20:00 - Blake (Guest)

I think sometimes the most simple things are what I always come back to. I think with creativity there's two things. One, don't aim for perfect, especially with creative projects. If you aim to be perfect, you are going to find a million reasons to stop something because it simply isn't there. And John Cleese said this a million times. He was like it's the death of creativity, trying to be perfect. 

 

20:26

I think just go with an idea and just see where it takes you and at the end of the day, like, have fun with it. Creativity is a. You know there are times when things are serious and you know, depending on what you're trying to do and the art piece you're trying to make and sure, on those times you know, sure, be respectful and be mindful. But I think for a lot of the time we can get so carried away with needing to get to a deadline or what a client expectation, or how are we going to make this work in a budget and it's all this pressurized situation. But sometimes just have fun. 

 

21:00

Just most of the best ideas I think I've ever had have been stupid. And then you bring them back from a crazy point like start at 11 and you might end up at a 7, which is probably where it should be. So, yeah, just don't, don't take it too seriously all the time. And the other thing for me is and we kind of mentioned this earlier do the work, and the work will take care of itself, like I it's. It is saved me hundreds of times in shows and in whole range of different types of shows, so not just at a band gig or an MC thing or you know, live on air or whatever the case is Like. If it saved me constantly, if I prepare to, if I prepare knowing that something is going to fail when it does invariably fail and it will, you've got a backup plan and you don't have to freak out in that moment in front of you know however many people are watching. So they're my little nuggets of advice. 

 

21:54 - Alexis (Host)

Oh my God, they're such good ones. If someone wanted to develop their creative process, yes, like, do what you do in all of the. 

 

22:08 - Blake (Guest)

I'm too far down this path now to turn around. You're like I can't change it now. I can't. 

 

22:17 - Alexis (Host)

Is there any resources that you would recommend? 

 

22:22 - Blake (Guest)

You know, I think sometimes the best place to start or not to start, do some investigation and some research first but is to go to the people that you really admire the work of and ask them questions. People are a lot more willing to give time than I think people think. People go these guys, these ladies. There's so much work, they've got so much on their calendar, they couldn't give me 10 minutes and I guarantee well, maybe not guarante. 

 

22:47 - Alexis (Host)

Can I have that in writing?  

 

22:50 - Blake (Guest)

Sure, sure, I think invariably, people are happy to discuss and help people out and answer questions, as long as I think this is what the person asking the question needs to be. They need to be organized, need to be punctual, they need to do all of that stuff so that you are using the least amount of time possible. And I'm happy to answer questions from people who go, hey, how did you do this, or how did this work, or where would you recommend I start on this particular thing, because it's really hard and I've been lucky in things that I've done but it's come with a lot of hard work to get places and a lot of people to convince of things, and there's gatekeepers at every part of every industry and you continually need to work around them. And you know, I'm a male 40-year-old guy and it's been hard for me and there's a lot of advantage to being a male 40-year-old guy, so it's hard for everybody to get where they want to go. 

 

23:43

But there are people out there that are absolutely willing to answer questions and to help people, because for me, at the end of the day, I want an arts industry, a media industry, a music industry to be the best possible version of itself that it can be, and the only way to get to that spot is to be a bit more open with answering questions and helping people up. I really don't get this whole. Well, I did the hard yards, you do the hard yards, I mean. Yes, we all have done hard yards and they're intrinsic to being a great artist. I think you know you need to do the shit gigs, you need to have the rejections. They're a really important part of the process, but to a degree, you know, at some point you also need to help people up. 

 

24:23 - Alexis (Host)

But being authentic and being open to your community to share knowledge is not giving things on a silver platter for someone else. 

 

24:31 - Blake (Guest)

That's very true

 

24:33 - Alexis (Host)

It's purely just. You know, if people want to have knowledge, eat it up and run with it. Like you said, there are people there that if you are willing to ask, they're willing to deliver 

 

24:38 - Blake (Guest)

Yeah, that's right. 100% and you know, yes, the failures are a really important part of any process in any industry, and I think, especially in performance, because at the end of the day, you will be on stage and you will have to deliver. And if you can't, and you're not ready, or whatever the case is, then you will fail and it will hurt and you may not want to get back up again. That's why you don't aim for the stars straight away. You build yourself incrementally. So you've got these little scars and they'll be okay. You'll be okay when you get knocked down. 

 

25:17

But, yeah, asking questions and getting more information and having a bit more knowledge about why you're choosing things and how to get to a destination is really important. There's absolutely no roadmap for this industry. I don't really know anyone who is doing what I'm doing, but there are people out there. But I would love to have conversations with other creatives, kind of like what you are doing, and ask how did you get there, or how did this work, or why did that fail, or why did this succeed? What specifically about it worked so well or didn't work well? And it's possibly a conversation that you know, maybe through a podcast like this, people are more willing to talk about things, but it's just have a conversation. Yeah, people are happy to answer questions, mostly. 

 

26:05 - Alexis (Host)

One extra question for you. 

 

26:06 - Blake (Guest)

Okay, sure. 

 

26:08 - Alexis (Host)

If you could hear anyone come on this podcast and answer these questions, who would it be and why?

 

26:14 - Blake (Guest)

Who would it be? So I was having a look at the people that you've had on here and it's great. So they cover a variety of different disciplines, and I think I would like to see someone from a theatre background. Have you had a theatre director? 

 

26:35 - Alexis (Host)

No, I have not yet. 

 

26:36 - Blake (Guest)

I would like to see someone in that world. Because I think, like theatre is the culmination of so many disciplines. You know you've got acting, you know dancing, music, musicality, but also all of the other things stage design and direction and budgeting and tour planning and it kind of is like I see it, as if you can make a theatre show work with 100 moving parts 35 times a month. You've kind of got some stuff figured out and there's a lot of people that do a really good job in that space. So I'd like to see some theatre directors, I think. 

 

27:12 - Alexis (Host)

Oh my goodness, Blake, thank you so much for coming on Through the Creative Door. This has been just a dream. 

 

27:18 - Blake (Guest)

Thank you so much for having me and thanks for coming down to the studio. I didn't have to go anywhere. 

 

27:23 - Alexis (Host)

I love it. 

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