Through The Creative Door

BSIDE Sunset Cities

Featured Artist: So.Crates, Nelson Dialect & Alnitak Kid
Featured Vinyl: Sunset Cities
 
Alexis’ Hot Pick 
Oh Baby (feat. Jace XL)
Sam’s Hot Pick
6-2-6
 
Aus Music Alert! Support this artists by purchasing this record via Bandcamp:
https://bedroomsuckrecords.bandcamp.com/album/sunset-cities  
 
Thanks for listening, catch you on the next episode.
Psst! We are always on the lookout for an artist's vinyl to listen to, have you got one in mind that we should check out? Get in contact with us via Instagram @throughthecreativedoor
 
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CREDITS
Created and Hosted by Alexis Naylor
Co-Host: Sam Timmerman
Music by Alexis Naylor & Ruby Miguel
Voiceover: Ruby Miguel
Edited and Produced by Ruby Miguel
00:09 - (Announcement)
Welcome to B-Side, the mini-series from Through the Creative Door. Join Alexis and Sam as they dive into the timeless world of vinyl. For Alexis, vinyl was more than music. It was a Sunday ritual she shared with her dad, listening, talking and soaking in the stories behind each album and the artwork on every sleeve. Though her dad is no longer with us, she continues this tradition with her friend, Sam Timmerman. Join them as they share their passion for vinyl and the stories these records hold. 
 
00:44 - Alexis (Host)
Hello Sam. 
 
00:46 - Sam (Host)
Hello, how are we? 
 
00:48 - Alexis (Host)
Good, better in seeing you, my love. 
 
00:52 - Sam (Host)
Thank you and returning the favour. Returning the thought 
 
00:54 - Alexis (Host)
We are good and we are up to episode three. 
 
01:04 - Sam (Host)
Three, three. Which one are you doing that one? 
 
01:06 - Alexis (Host)
Three Wait, which way are you meant to do it? 
 
01:09 - Sam (Host)
Three it's not meant to. It depends if we're watching it very fast or not. 
 
01:12 - Alexis (Host)
Oh my God, I love that movie and he's like Right, there's that, yeah, but we are here to talk about another album this week. 
 
01:21 - Sam (Host)
We are. Actually this one ,it’s my turn
 
01:28 - Alexis (Host)
What is it? Oh wait, let me start the timer, don't show it yet. No, okay, go. 
 
01:30 - Sam (Host)
Ready. I'm ready for 10 minutes. To start it. Look at this. 
 
01:33 - Alexis (Host)
Oh, this is so pretty. 
 
01:37 - Sam (Host)
It's an album called Sunset Cities and I bought this because of that. 
 
01:43 - Alexis (Host)
The picture. 
 
01:44 - Sam (Host)
I had no idea what I was getting. 
 
01:46 - Alexis (Host)
Yeah. 
 
01:48 - Sam (Host)
Saw the sunset picture and I went this is gorgeous, let's buy this. 
 
01:52 - Alexis (Host)
Do you know what I absolutely love? When you shot this through to me to say this is the record, I was so stoked that it's actually Australian artists. Absolutely stoked. It's a collaboration of three different Australian artists actually and it's on Bandcamp. 
 
02:11 - Sam (Host)
So if anyone wants, it's on Bandcamp available now and I think what I saw is there may be, at time of recording, about 20 physical copies left, Mm On the current run. 
 
02:22 - Alexis (Host)
Have you got a number? Does it tell you what number out of the collection you are? 
 
02:27 - Sam (Host)
No. 
 
02:28 - Alexis (Host)
Oh. 
 
02:29 - Sam (Host)
I could make it up. 
 
02:31 - Alexis (Host)
No, don't do that. 
 
02:34 - Sam (Host)
But I got the best surprise, because now, those of you who are listening and not watching, what are you doing? 
 
02:44 - Alexis (Host)
Because you miss out on our beautiful faces, but also, oh my good lord, this is an orange vinyl. Orange vinyl. It is absolutely stunning. That is stunning. That is so pretty. 
 
03:03 - Sam (Host)
I think I sent you a video when I first pulled it out and I had to stop myself because I just went no, no, we have to do this properly to be honest, you were like you're a bit excited that video very excited. Yeah, this is sunset cities. Um, now the artists will need to forgive me if I pronounce it wrong, but so karate's? So Dr Socrates? Yeah, alan Attack Kid and Nussan Dialect produced this for Bedroom Suck Records, which is based out of Brisbane, I believe. 
 
03:40 - Alexis (Host)
Yeah, it is in Brisbane. They do quite a lot of hip-hop and that kind of genre. 
 
03:50 - Sam (Host)
Yeah, heaps of MCs, heaps of Brisbane MCs actually on that label. Super cool. 
 
03:54 - Alexis (Host)
Yeah, it's so lovely to be able to highlight a, you know Australian record. 
 
04:01 - Sam (Host)
It's so lovely. And this record again. I had bought it on the premise of the artwork being cool. I hadn't even looked at the back of the leaf. Poured out the orange vinyl, went, went, oh my god, and then stuck it on and it I just melted the. You look at that cover and you go no, this is what that music is meant to sound like. It is peak sunset groove, sunrise, sunset groove. Because I love the concept of it being not just let's get some artists and let's write about sunrise, sunset, but the concept of each side of the record is specifically your sunrise side, sunset side. Really cool, and I'm I'm not great at listening to lyrics, as we know from the best of times, but the odd thing will jump out at me even when I'm just sitting back and listening to all the synth grooves. And it's been really great getting to know this album. 
 
05:00 - Alexis (Host)
It's been on repeat at my house and my earworm. My hot pick is Oh Baby. That that is, I reckon, the bee's knees for me on this record. 
 
05:19 - Sam (Host) 
And then what? What gives that impression for you? I'm interested because I listened to it a couple of times and loved it, and then other ones stuck out at me. So I'm interested to see. 
 
05:32 - Alexis (Host)
Yeah, I honestly I just got hooked on the melody lines of the vocalists. So, yeah, for me that was just earworm. Again, we know that I'm a bit more of a lyric girly, but actually it was the melodies that actually stood out to me. Again, earwormies, they got stuck in there. 
 
05:52 - Sam (Host)
Great. 
 
05:53 - Alexis (Host)
A little groove, groove, groove, groove. 
 
05:55 - Sam (Host)
Yeah. 
 
05:56 - Alexis (Host)
Yeah, but this track features Lace XL, who I believe is also based up on the east coast up in Queensland as well. So yeah, again, it just really highlights diving into community and doing a project like a collective, like yeah, I really do love that. 
 
06:22 - Sam (Host)
And I think as well, the majority of the artists on the record are First Nations if I’m not mistaken. 
 
06:33 - Alexis (Host)
Actually, I haven't delved into that side of things, so perhaps you are right. 
 
06:38 - Sam (Host)
Maybe, maybe. It's been a while, and you know, what we could do is we could actually get in contact with them, which would be very cool, which I haven't done yet. 
 
06:48 - Alexis (Host)
We definitely could do that. I love this. 
 
06:50 - Sam (Host)
We'll get in touch with Bedroom Suck as well and ask them. 
 
06:53 - Alexis (Host)
Yeah, yeah. Well, I remember when I was diving into this. I remember just loving the fact that I think they all met up together in Adelaide, because they're not all based out of Adelaide, but I think they all met up together in Adelaide. Now we're coming up with the concept. 
 
07:14
Yeah, oh that's so cute. And then look for those listening and for those following the potty. I am half Filipino, so for me, whenever I hear like an origin story of like a project which this one, they all came together in Adelaide and they like shared food, of like Ethiopian food and like came up with the concept of this. 
 
07:36 - Sam (Host)
That's incredible. 
 
07:37 - Alexis (Host)
So like for me, just like community and ideas, just around food is just like I'm, like you're talking to the sister spirit here. I'm all for it. I'm all for it, love it. 
 
07:52 - Sam (Host)
This is going to turn into a food podcast in season three, but we're not telling anyone that yet. Shh shh. 
 
07:57 - Alexis (Host)
Let them come down the rabbit hole a bit further. 
 
07:59 - Sam (Host)
This is going to turn into a food podcast in season three, but we're not telling anyone that yet. Let them come down the rabbit hole a bit further. I have to say I love the fact that you got caught on melody in this, because I got caught on a lyric again. 
 
08:06 - Alexis (Host)
Oh, my God, stop. I'm so proud of you. Look at you go. 
 
08:10 - Sam (Host)
The whole B-side of the record, the whole Sunset side, has this and it's not just an ongoing idea about talking about Sunset. They actually say when was the last time you saw the Sunset and it begins and ends majority of the tracks on the B side, which I thought was really cool. But then the hot pick for me was 626, because just they brought the entire that side of the record together and a bit more spoken word rather than actual written rhyme, which I thought was really cool. And one of the lines there that just said my dad would say sun comes up, sun goes down. 
 
08:54
Simple but kind of profound, I would think, is the line yeah, kind of simple but kind of profound I would think is the line yeah, kind of simple but kind of profound oh my god, there were a few lyrics through that whole side of the record that are really cool yeah I think it was if I would have to find it written down but there's one there that was I used. I call my little brother son because he shone like one. If I misheard that, I apologise, but that's how I heard it and I love it. 
 
09:27 - Alexis (Host)
Well, do you know what? For those listening, you go down your little rabbit hole and listen to the record and let us know if we're wrong. 
 
09:34 - Sam (Host)
Exactly Post a TikTok of misheard lyrics. How about that? 
 
09:40 - Alexis (Host)
There's a reason why that's popular. 
 
09:42 - Sam (Host)
That's very true. So yeah, so your favourite is 626, the last track on the entire album. 
 
09:49 - Alexis (Host)
Perfect. I think that's great. 
 
09:52 - Sam (Host)
Closely followed by the opening track of the album. Only because and I was so excited about 626 that I've lost the title of it I'm going to look over here and cheat. Just that beginning. So that dimension, first track of A-side. It's called that Dimension. Also, look at the back of the art as well. That artwork's beautiful, mainly because that first moment of putting this thing on the feeling was just oh, thank you. 
 
10:29 - Alexis (Host)
And, I'll be honest, I don't listen to nearly enough hip hop. So it was really lovely for me to have such a rounded record to listen to where, like I didn't feel overwhelmed, my ears didn't feel cooked at any point there was enough light and shade across both sides of this vinyl that I felt engaged the whole entire time. 
 
10:53 - Sam (Host)
Yeah, the beat making and production was really considered and really really musical yeah, so real cool. 
 
11:00 - Alexis (Host)
Yeah, it was really really well done. 
 
11:07 - Sam (Host)
Really hits the soul. There's some stuff in there that made me feel like I was on venice beach in california. Almost I was just like no, no we're but that feel, that sunset feeling of just ah, ah, chills. Just peace. There's a reason why when you're in Western Australia, every hill and every beach there's 10 minutes. Every hill and every beach in Western Australia is covered in people when you can see the sunset. 
 
11:33 - Alexis (Host)
Yeah, yeah, because it's a vibe. It's a vibe. 
 
11:38 - Sam (Host)
Well, we've done our 10-minute wrap. We're done to it. That's not a sentence. Whatever. We're done to it. 
 
11:47 - Alexis (Host)
Get onto Sunset Cities. 
 
11:50 - Sam (Host)
Absolutely Still available on Bandcamp. 
 
11:53 - Alexis (Host)
Yes, go, please support. 
 
11:55 - Sam (Host)
Let's look right now 14 remaining. Yeah 14 remaining, get on. 
 
12:01 - Alexis (Host)
Get amongst it! 
 
12:04 - Sam (Host)
At time of recording. 
 
12:05 - Alexis (Host)
Love it. 
 
12:06 - Sam (Host)
Out of an addition of 500. This is the 12-inch LP. 
 
12:10 - Alexis (Host)
Yeah, beautiful. Yeah, All right brother, until next time. 
 
12:14 - Sam (Host)
See you very soon. 
 
12:21 - Alexis (Host)
Thanks for tuning in for another episode of Through the Creative Door. If you enjoy our episodes and find value in them, consider supporting us by making a donation. Just visit buymeacoffeecom. Forward slash through the creative door or via the link in our Instagram bio where you can choose an amount and even write us a little message. Every little bit helps and we truly appreciate all of your support. But if you can't donate, no worries, you can still help us out by sharing our podcast with your friends and family and leaving a review on your favorite platform. Thanks so much for being part of our community. We'll catch you on the next episode. Bye. 

3 | You’ve Got To Make Space For Play with James and Bronnie

In this episode, Alexis is joined by James and Bronnie, the talented duo behind the Melbourne-based band Curly and the Fringe. Alongside their music careers, James is an accomplished photographer and videographer, while Bronnie is a freelance writer. They dive into their creative journeys, discussing how they balance their individual artistic passions with their music career, their approach to songwriting, and the challenges of working in multiple creative fields. The conversation also highlights the importance of play in creativity, reminding us that as adults, it’s easy to lose sight of the joy that comes with creating without the pressure of perfection. Whether you’re an artist or someone trying to juggle different creative pursuits, this episode offers valuable insights into finding harmony and success in the creative world.
 
If you’d like to see more, you can follow James & Bronnie on instagram; @curlyandthefringe
 
This episode was recorded on 11 January 2025 on the lands of the Woiworung Peoples. We hope that this episode inspires you as a creative person and as a human being.
Thanks for listening, catch you on the next episode.
Psst! We are always on the lookout for creative people to share their story and inspire others. Have you got someone in mind who would love to have a chat? Get in contact with us via Instagram @throughthecreativedoor
 
…
Creative resources
Scar Tissue by Anthony Kiedis
On Writing: A Memoir of the Craft by Stephen King
Alan Watts
How Proust Can Change Your Life - Alain de Botton
Let’s get social:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/throughthecreativedoor/ 
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@ttcdpodcast
 
CREDITS
Created and Hosted by Alexis Naylor
Music by Alexis Naylor & Ruby Miguel
Edited and Produced by Ruby Miguel
 
—--------------------------
00:09 - Alexis (Host)
Hello, my name is Alexis Naylor and I am your host here at Through the Creative Door. On behalf of myself and my guests, I would like to acknowledge the traditional owners and custodians on which this podcast is recorded and produced. Owners and custodians on which this podcast is recorded and produced. May we pay our respects to all First Nations people and acknowledge Elders, past and present. On this podcast, I'll be chatting to an array of creative guests, getting a glimpse into their worlds and having some honest and inspiring conversations along the way. I'm delighted to welcome you to Through the Creative Door
Hello, James and Bonnie, how are you? 
 
00:52 - James (Guest)
Good. 
 
00:53 - Bronnie (Guest) 
Tremendous Just delicious. 
 
00:56 - Alexis (Host)
I love this. I am so bloody chuffed. I look at you, you bloody power, couple you two. 
 
01:03 - James (Guest)
We do often tally each other. We're like, we're a power couple
 
01:05 - Bronnie (Guest)
But like ironically, because we're not really, I don't think. 
 
01:13 - James (Guest)
We don't really achieve that much. We, you know micro wins every day. 
 
01:17 - Bronnie (Guest)
Again, it depends on your definition of success. 
 
01:22 - Alexis (Host)
That's true. That's true. But for those that are listening, you guys have a cutie patootie, folk slash. What else would you call that? 
 
01:30 - James (Guest)
We're a folk duo on paper, but then we sometimes have a very alternative loud rock band
 
01:44 - Bronnie (Guest)
We're kind of genre sluts. So we like to. We've got one really punk song, one kind of garage stoner rock song. 
 
01:52 - Alexis (Host)
Yep, oh yeah, sorry, I forgot to say Curly in the Fringe. 
 
01:56 - James (Guest)
Curly in the Fringe. 
 
01:57 - Alexis (Host)
That's right, curly in the Fringe Whoop, whoop, whoop In the house. 
 
02:01 - Bronnie (Guest)
All right, let's get into it. I'm excited, let's go, All right. 
 
02:05 - Alexis (Host)
Bron yes, what does a creative space mean to you, and why?
 
02:10 - Bronnie (Guest)
Well, I actually responded more to the second part of this question, which was about how your mindset has changed. Is that right, yeah? okay, if I speak to that. 
 
02:22 - Alexis (Host)
Yeah, 100%. 
 
02:22 - Bronnie (Guest)
I didn't know that I was a creative person for a long time until maybe sort of about five years ago, which is really funny when you look back, because I tried to have the corporate job for about four years at the start of my career and I just did not fit in at all and my one of my first jobs was working in like accounts management for an advertising company and the creatives were on the floor below us and and I just much more kind of you wanted to be there spiritually like gelled with those people because they were because I'm not a normie, right, and I tried, I tried really hard to be a normie for um, up until I was about 29 ish. 
 
03:15
So, yeah, I was trying to fit in all through school. I was trying to fit in with kind of the, the jock group and I played netball and they didn't like me right no, but they didn't. It didn't work at all, it just wasn't. I realize now that I should have been hanging out with, like, the artists and the weirdos and and those are my people, um, because those are the people who are much more kind of authentic, they think about things, they feel, whereas the jock group that I was trying to fit in with. They had a very particular kind of system and way of communicating and set of values that didn't match up with my own, so they didn't like me. They ditched me and bullied me. Fast forward to the career, trying to be a suit and a business person. It's not working out. 
 
04:18
And then I went freelance and I was a writer and I still didn't know that I was a creative person, even though I was a writer. Because still didn't know that I was a creative person even though I was a writer. Because I didn't know that writing was a creative thing really, because it just came so naturally to me I didn't think about it and then sort of yeah, started to realize get to know myself better. When you're 30 plus, it's so good. Oh, how good is being 30 plus I love, yeah, I totally love yeah um, suddenly you accept yourself a whole lot more. 
 
04:51
You're like, hey, it's okay that I don't want to go out and do the stuff that other people are doing. It's okay to like what I like. Um, so all of this is to say that, yeah, I didn't realise I was a creative person and now I'm really trying to learn how to um turn it into a career and be disciplined with it, because I'm really bad with being driven by motivation and inspiration rather than habit and values, which means that I'm not very prolific in terms of creating things. I spend a lot of time sort of on the couch. I call it Bronwy. I suffer from Bronwy constantly and I just like I'm tired all the time. I think I've had a lot of depression and anxiety over the years, probably from trying to force myself to be someone that I wasn't, and that's exhausting. So here we are. 
 
05:55 - Alexis (Host)
How about you, James? 
 
05:59 - James (Guest)
What does a creative space mean to you and why? Well, I've created when I'm anxious and when I'm feeling present and feeling good, and the art that comes out is just different. I think Anxious art's cool. It's like chaotic and just yeah, I don't know, depends on, yeah, I don't know. I always come back to good art and bad art but, like, sometimes I can't express myself. Like I've been writing this song for 10 years 10 years probably and the music is awesome, but the lyrics, like I've written it probably 20 times and I'm like Bronnie, just fucking, can you write it for me? She's like get me a break. Word Smith come on, and at the time that was a song that was, like you know, traumatic event happens and then the music is like based on that, but the words, the words can't. 
 
06:59 - Bronnie (Guest)
But music is also the primary way that you express yourself. 
 
07:03 - James (Guest)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so that's, yeah, yeah. 
 
07:05 - Bronnie (Guest)
And I like to question whether we always need words. Like why are we trying to force it to be something? 
 
07:14 - James (Guest)
It's funny because I muted the vocal track. 
 
07:16 - Bronnie (Guest)
Yeah, and. 
 
07:17 - James (Guest)
I was like this music's awesome, yeah. But then I'm like attached to that singer-songwriter. I want to be fucking Dylan or whatever and yeah, just like I'm not doing dylan comma bob yeah yeah, um 
 
07:22 - Alexis (Host)
But you think about the times when you hear songs in another language where we don't actually know what they're saying yeah, it hits, it hits yeah, you're right it does. 
 
07:44 - James (Guest)
Yeah, one thing going back to that initial question in a physical creative space, it's pretty awesome to be playing guitar in a room that's clean. 
 
07:55 - Alexis (Host)
As in, no clutter?
 
07:56 - James (Guest)
No clutter, because then you just get distracted by things. I could put that away, or no, you know. 
 
08:09 - Bronnie (Guest)
Interestingly, I totally agree with you. I need a clean, organized space. But, there's some studies that suggest that messy people who have messy spaces tend to be more creative apparently. 
 
08:25 - Alexis (Host)
Yeah, speaking of humans, is there something that you're proud of creating thus far? 
 
08:37 - Bronnie (Guest)
I think all the songs that I've written with James I am actually really proud of because they were challenging. As I said, I didn't see myself as a creative person. I really, when I was younger I wanted to be a singer, but then I had one sister who whenever I would sing there's always one she would say you're out of tune, Bronwyn. Like every single time I'd just be singing quietly in my room and she'd call out you're out of tune, Bronwyn. And now I know that she was just being shitty and sisterly, um, but at the time it was really really shook me because I was like, oh, clearly I can't hear, or whatever, or, and again it stopped me from playing and exploring because I was like it's wrong air quotes, right, um. So then I got really shy and didn't trust myself and everything. 
 
09:37
And James is the one who kept encouraging me and and I got to 29 or whatever, and I was like what am I doing with my life? Like you know, I want to try to maybe do some of these things that I've dreamed of, that I've been too scared of. So I started playing around on the piano and singing a bit and it was rough at the start but, yeah, then we started kind of writing together and James kept me really honest. James has a really good eye for and I hate the language that I'm going to use, but I'm going to say like true art, and by that I mean something that comes from a really natural, genuine, authentic place, and so he'll show me things sometimes that I've put online and and there's a song um cash savage and the last drinks and and there's this music video that goes with it and it's called what's it called? 
um working, keep working on you keep working on your job, working at your job yeah, it's fantastic, it's just, it's so. And he's the first one who kind of showed me the chats and and yeah. And then obviously there's the other side of that where sometimes he shows me some things and we have a little bit of a giggle because the person's trying, but it's clearly they're trying too hard, it's not landing it's not a way that you would expect and people can tell I think people can really tell if it comes from a genuine place or not, or if you're kind of cutting corners and skipping some of the process, you know, just farting out lyrics or whatever, and they don't quite land. 
 
11:27
So yeah, I also started kind of being a bit lazy with my lyrics at the start, as you do when you're first songwriting. You're just kind of filling in lines, I think, think, and James would pull me up and sort of say that's a cliche or that doesn't kind of ring true. And yeah, he kept me really honest and, um, I really genuinely love all the songs, as much as I'm my own biggest critic and and like, find my voice hard to listen to, especially at the start, and I focus on all the flaws and everything. I then hear back the songs a couple of months later or something and I think, oh, actually, yeah, that's nice, those words are nice or funny or you know, and the music is always good because that's you. 
 
12:13 - Alexis (Host)
How about you how about you? How about you, james? Have you got something that sort of resonates with you as like a proud project or creative thing? 
 
12:23 - James (Guest)
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, I achieve. I can do things Like. I'm always doing stuff. 
 
12:30 - James (Guest)
Every video that I put out. Sometimes I look back at them on instagram. I'm like fucking deleting that. Yeah, it's oh rough, but at the time I thought it was great. Um, yeah, the songs will be right, like all the songs that we songs that get mastered like. I'm always like, yeah, they're sweet, they can stay up again. I've deleted songs off spotify from my 20s and I'm like, oh yeah, deleting that. Um, you know, art is life too. I used to play sport, so cricket and football, and we won like these premierships, right, but especially this football, like football in Benalla under 18s. It's like three years of training for this moment, basically, and like team building and bonding and like training twice a week and so that was fucking cool, actually playing in a premiership side. I know this is like not music. 
 
13:43 - Bronnie (Guest)
You can totally do sport as a work of art. You absolutely can there are people shane warren, may he rest in peace. Yeah, absolutely, like made bowling into an art form. He did it his own way, so I the art of spin bowling yeah. 
 
13:53 - James (Guest)
So I do really like that as well and I was like a passionate cricketer and stuff. 
 
13:59 - Alexis (Host)
How did you get into cricket, did someone?
 
14:02 - James (Guest)
I had no choice, because my dad and my brother just was there. My older brother and my dad were insane cricketers. Yeah, brother and my dad were insane cricketers, yeah, um, so yeah, there's like accolades and fucking stuff like that. I mean even as simple as like bronnie, and I do cover gigs, like you know two to five at ramblers on a sunday afternoon pretty cool place to play music. 
 
14:33
It's like a brewery and oh, shout out to beautiful ben leslie and like we, just simple stuff like getting dressed, putting your best clothes on. You go do yoga in the morning, go for a run and then we leave at 10 to 1. It's just around the corner and that means I get there 50 minutes before we start so I get to set up slowly. Ben's really cool. We play music for three hours and sometimes the hanging out with ben and just chatting with people there is more fun than playing the music part. 
 
15:13 - Alexis (Host)
But it's just how good is your band family yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah so amazing yeah community community
 
15:29 - James (Guest)
So I really love um team like achieving the team. I can't think of a better word than achieve, but like proud of the collective yeah, collective or um collaboration, yeah, harmonizing even um, anyway, going back to that ramblers cover gig, and then we get home and we've like we fucking did it and we made 450 bucks and we're like we got fed, now we're sitting on the couch watered yeah, good, yeah. Sitting on the couch watching succession and we're like fucking cats are inside. How good's this, you know? This is the life yeah, this is a good life yeah 
 
16:07 - Bronnie (Guest)
what question are you answering? can I just ask? Well, I was answering, basically. 
 
16:14 - James (Guest)
Going back to the initial answer, For those listening, these guys got to read the questions beforehand. 
 
16:17 - Bronnie (Guest)
Guess who did go through and prepare, and guess who, I'm pretty sure did not. 
 
16:26 - James (Guest)
Well, wasn't the question what are you proud of? What are you most proud of?
 
16:29 - Bronnie (Guest)
No, you're doing so well. I'm sorry, don't? I love you. 
 
16:36 - Alexis (Host)
There's no shame, no shame on this podcast. Your answers are super valid. Well, I guess, on the flip side of things that we're most proud of, I'm going to go with you, Bron. First, do you think that there's been something or like a circumstance or experience or a time in your life that has been like had a direct um challenging impact on creating? 
 
17:11 - Bronnie (Guest)
yeah for sure. Um, back in 2021, I had a massive panic attack. I'd actually had a couple. It was in and out of lockdown, stressful socio-political environment. Everything was kind of like going to shit. And um, I was dealing with that by numbing out smoking pot, taking psychedelics, having a wonderful time. But, um, overdoing it definitely. Um self-medicating and cut to massive panic attack. Two hours on the ground, ambulance came fully thought I was having a heart attack and dying. 
 
18:00 - Alexis (Host)
It's all right to laugh now. 
 
18:02 - Bronnie (Guest)
It's funny now Because I was there right. 
 
18:06 - James (Guest)
I called the ambulance. 
 
18:08 - Bronnie (Guest)
But then what happens is I'm actually really interested in psychology, so that was all happening and it was terrifying and terrible, but there was a part of me going. This is interesting. What's going on here, um, and I started learning all about like anxiety and stimulation and panic and and. When you've been through a lot of stress for a long time or one gigantic, very stressful, very traumatic experience, what happens is you're getting all this stress hormone released in your body right and it affects all these different organs, makes it more difficult for your brain to maintain homeostasis and I'm very sketchy on science but I'm pretty good with psychology, so be a bit patient with me here. But anyway, what happens is you end up in a state of hyperstimulation or semi-stress response readiness, and what that basically means is all these organs that are affected by stress and systems in your body are starting to behave erratically because your stimulation levels have risen consistently, that they've reset at a higher spot and, as I said, your brain's having trouble maintaining homeostasis. So you're getting all these like little kind of um tingles in your arm and in your scalp and you're getting like tightness in the chest and you're very jump. You'll find you're very jumpy, um, and because I'd had such an enormous panic attack. 
 
19:46
Um, I went through about three, four, five months of hyperstimulation where I was just like terrified all the time. I constantly thought I was dying, about to have a stroke. Something was off, um, and it made it really hard to create, because when you're anxious, your focus narrows. It's like you're running away from a T-Rex You've become very focused on. You're not like relaxed and thinking about things from a macro sense, you're very much like what's right in front of me. 
 
20:24 - James (Guest)
Yeah, you're on basic mode. 
 
20:26 - Bronnie (Guest)
James calls it basic mode, which I love, survival mode, and it's a beautiful thing. 
 
20:35
It was very, very challenging and and and a tough time and um, one of the things that taught me was, during this time where I was not much fun, probably to be around for James. We were going for one of our nightly walks and it was hard rubbish and there was this tricycle out the front of a kindergarten, like a daycare, that had a squeaky wheel but was otherwise kind of basically functional, and I have no idea why, but I jumped onto it and I was careening around the streets on this tiny little tricycle with this squeaky wheel and it was just fun, right. It was just like silly, spontaneous play Immediately felt so much better and lighter and that was one of the first times where I started to think, hey, play right. Play is so important and as we get older I think a lot of us tend not to do it so much. We get more stuck in our ways and routines and, yeah, how can I maintain sort of a youthful outlook, an open mind, being more present to what's around me rather than just taking everything for granted? 
 
21:52 - Alexis (Host)
Do you need an object. Do you have anything that either of you like a lucky socks or I? 
 
22:02 - Bronnie (Guest)
Ooh superstition. 
 
22:04 - Alexis (Host)
Yeah, like I mean, let's go all out, or is there just? 
 
22:10 - James (Guest)
I don't know. I don't know. 
 
22:12 - Bronnie (Guest)
Not really. I think is the answer Not really yeah, your guitar. 
 
22:15 - James (Guest)
Well, I need a guitar. 
 
22:16 - Bronnie (Guest)
Yeah. 
 
22:19 - James (Guest)
I mean the outcome's better if I prepare Absolutely Headspace I mean meditation, makes the creative session much better. What about you? 
 
22:34 - Bronnie (Guest)
If I'm writing an article or doing yoga or cooking, I need um, I've got to have music. Yeah, that's that's. 
 
22:46 - James (Guest)
I've got to have like a podcast going on whilst I'm walking or something. Yeah, which um which is funny, because you don't need it really. 
 
22:56 - Bronnie (Guest)
You don't need it and maybe it would be beneficial to not have it. 
 
23:02 - James (Guest)
But we do. 
 
23:02 - Alexis (Host)
But maybe you're stimulating multiple senses at once. That help. 
 
23:06 - Bronnie (Guest)
I do it for relaxation, so I put on Calming Classical often when I'm writing just to kind of yeah, you know get you into your body a bit and out of your mind, which is helpful. And when I'm doing yoga, I curate a bunch of yoga playlists. If you're into yoga, my profile is LeBronLA. We'll put it in the show notes. Yeah, and there's a ton of. 
 
23:34 - James (Guest)
There's some banging playlists. 
 
23:35 - Bronnie (Guest)
There's some. And well thought out yeah, very carefully curated, to bring you up into your body and then bring you down again, um, for shavasana at the end, um, but yeah, in terms of if I'm doing, I don't have an object, I don't think, my brain, my heart and senses- Maybe not so much a material object, but yeah. Yeah, I don't think so yeah. 
 
24:03 - Alexis (Host)
All right, if you could give one piece of advice, one nugget of gold to another creative, what would it be? 
 
24:14 - Bronnie (Guest)
Okay, I'm going to speak as if I'm speaking to myself, because I need to hear this as much as anybody. 
 
24:20 - James (Guest)
Yeah good point. I love that.  
 
24:23 - Bronnie (Guest)
I would say trust your own judgment. So explore, play, be open to feedback, but say to yourself like is there anything in this that could help me express this idea better or that could help me make this better? If you like it the way it is, go with it. The way it is because ultimately it's about self-expression. Yeah, it's about self-expression, yeah and um. It doesn't matter if other people like it or respond to it. I think if you're genuinely expressing something, I think chances are people there will be people out there who do see that and recognize that. 
 
25:11
But I think we have this hyper productivity, focused hustle culture where we feel like we need to produce and it's only worth while to do art if other people are hearing it or listening or seeing it or celebrating it. Right, if we're, what's the point? If we're not Beyonce, but no, I think, do more art, it's. It's how you get to know yourself. Um, it's cathartic and it's good therapy it's good therapy. How? 
 
There's no wrong, there's no, it's yeah yeah, there's no, you're not gonna please everyone's a critic. You're not gonna please everybody, so just follow your own 
 
25:56 - Alexis (Host) 
yeah, absolutely how about you, James? 
 
26:00 - James (Guest)
um, I like the idea of talking to myself, as in giving advice to myself, because again I need to hear this. But, um, someone who's had um trouble with self-doubt and confidence in myself, um, try and find the root of why you are doubting yourself all the time, because I find like my own inner narrative is negative. My output isn't as prolific, I guess, or whatever. So we're all riddled with it. But I think try and find a way to believe in yourself and have fun. 
 
26:45 - Bronnie (Guest)
Our inner critic often has the voice of our parents which we don't necessarily recognize. But yeah, try to go back to that childlike mindset of I'm just exploring and playing and and um, following my interests. 
 
27:02 - James (Guest)
You watch all these like child prodigies, like, uh, fucking. I don't know if anyone knows nathan cavalieri or um alex turnerkeys. He's a fucking monster man Like 14, 15, just writing these beasts of songs. 
 
27:22 - Bronnie (Guest)
Yeah. 
 
27:25 - James (Guest)
And he's just playing. You can hear it and there's no wrong.
 
27:29 - Bronnie (Guest)
You can hear it in the Arctic Monkeys' first album, especially how much fun they're having and it's clearly. It just sounds good to them, right, yeah? Yeah, and it's clearly it just sounds good to them right? 
 
27:38 - James (Guest)
Yeah, Absolutely. 
 
27:39 - Bronnie (Guest)
The other thing I would say that I need to hear again is enjoy the process, so try not to force it or be in a hurry to finish it. Let the idea develop. You know, keep coming back to it. That was a piece of advice I got um in in oh yeah, early writing job just keep coming back to it, let it develop, you know, let the seed kind of germinate. 
 
28:16 - James (Guest)
I have one, one piece of advice that um, I guess a mentor, Sean Gardner. He's not with us anymore, but he said to me once kind of in passing but just finish the project and yeah keep going back, to keep coming back to it. Yeah, always try and finish the project. You don't have to release it. You don't know, I do a massive promo and PR campaign. 
 
28:39 - Alexis (Host)
But there's something about, yeah, getting through your process and finishing. Yeah, because then like, then you just, if you don't continue practising, finishing a project, whatever that looks like, then you just have a bunch of stuff that you've just written a verse and a chorus or you know, maybe you've only sketched it, or yeah, there's learnings in the doing right, that's a good one. 
 
29:06 - James (Guest)
Good question. 
 
29:08 - Alexis (Host)
Is there anything? Any books, podcasts, youtube? I don't know any resource that has helped your creative process, Any references? 
 
29:24 - Bronnie (Guest)
Ones that aren't like obvious resources would be like meditating, journaling, the Enneagram Fuck Yes, Rick Rubin does a podcast where he talks with Andrew Huberman, but I'm sure he did a bunch of other podcasts when he was spruiking his book about creativity. 
 
29:45 - James (Guest)
Yeah, that's a good point. Actually, I'm reading a book about the Eagles at the moment and it's just like I guess, no specific podcast, but reading a lot of or listening to audio books about biographies of musicians and stuff like scar tissue by um anthony ketis yeah it's a good 
 
30:11 - Bronnie (Guest)
One on writing by um stephen king. It's really good. Alan watts, I mean, I get super into him and he talks a lot about um Ruay, which is this Taoist principle of not forcing yeah, that actually is something he's informed a lot of my thinking um around. 
 
30:32
You know he talks about, so the healing virtues of a plant, right? So they're not trying to be. We think of virtue as something that you kind of aspire to or like, as opposed to it just being innately in you, totally innately in you, like um. So raspberry leaf tea is meant to be tummy settling or you know whatever, and it's that's just, it's innate property's innate property. So, um, I love that idea. So again, coming back to what I've all been saying about following your interests and what lights you up, and um, yes, there was another one. 
 
31:08
Oh, alan de botton, he's fabulous. He wrote um how proust can change your life, and that's a lot about creativity, the art of travel yeah gosh, there's so many. Love it. 
 
31:23 - Alexis (Host)
All right. One last question. If you could hear another creative come on this podcast and answer these questions, who would it be? 
 
31:32 - James (Guest)
Evan's fun? Evan Jones from Malibu Spacey. Oh, evan Jones is fun. Yeah, he's good chess, he just gets into it. He also loves cooking and songwriting. Yeah. 
 
31:47 - Bronnie (Guest)
I would say we call him Pirate Craig, but his name is Craig Johnson and he performs under the name Del Cinqui. And just because he's a wonderful storyteller, yeah, he's fucking funny. He's really funny and engaging and interesting. So, I think he'd be fabulous. 
 
32:09 - Alexis (Host)
Oh, my goodness, James, Bronnie, this has been so bloody glorious. Thank you so much for coming through the creative door and having a chat with us. It's, yeah, just been glorious Love it, thanks for having us that was fun. 
32:29 - Alexis (Host)
Thanks for tuning in for another episode of Through the Creative Door. If you enjoy our episodes and find value in them, consider supporting us by making a donation. Just visit buymeacoffeecom. Forward slash through the creative door or via the link in our Instagram bio where you can choose an amount and even write us a little message. Every little bit helps and we truly appreciate all of your support. But if you can't donate, no worries, you can still help us out by sharing our podcast with your friends and family and leaving a review on your favourite platform. Thanks so much for being part of our community. We'll catch you on the next episode. Bye. 

BSIDE Tattoo You

Featured Artist: The Rolling Stones
Featured Vinyl: Tattoo You
Alexis' Hot Pick 
Tops 
Sam's Hot Pick 
Heaven 
Thanks for listening, catch you on the next episode.
Psst! We are always on the lookout for an artist's vinyl to listen to, have you got one in mind that we should check out? Get in contact with us via Instagram @throughthecreativedoor
 
Let’s get social:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/throughthecreativedoor/ 
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@ttcdpodcast
 
CREDITS
Created and Hosted by Alexis Naylor
Co-Host: Sam Timmerman
Music by Alexis Naylor & Ruby Miguel
Voiceover: Ruby Miguel
Edited and Produced by Ruby Miguel
00:09 - 
Welcome to B-Side, the mini-series from Through the Creative Door. Join Alexis and Sam as they dive into the timeless world of vinyl. For Alexis, vinyl was more than music. It was a Sunday ritual she shared with her dad, listening, talking and soaking in the stories behind each album and the artwork on every sleeve. Though her dad is no longer with us, she continues this tradition with her friend, sam Timmerman. Join them as they share their passion for vinyl and the stories these records hold. 
00:44 - Alexis (Host)
Hello brother. 
 
00:46 - Sam (Host)
Hello, hello, it's good to see you. It's good to see you. I just found this that I've been looking for forever. 
 
00:52 - Alexis (Host)
What is it? 
 
00:53 - Sam (Host)
It's a guitar pick. I'm not very good at guitar, but I was gifted some guitar picks. 
 
00:58 - Alexis (Host)
I mean trusty little contraption that everyone should have in their toolbox. 
 
01:03 - Sam (Host)
Fender 75th. I just found it. 
 
01:12 - Alexis (Host)
I love it, so let's do episode 2. 
 
01:17 - Sam (Host)
Episode 2. 
 
01:18 - Alexis (Host)
Yeah of talking about vinyls. I love this for us. I'm going to start our timer. We've got 10 minutes. 
 
01:26 - Sam (Host)
Boom, no pressure. What have you got for us? 
 
01:29 - Alexis (Host)
No pressure, I have this bad boy Rolling Stones Tattoo you Ooh ooh. 
 
01:37 - Intro (None)
It is. 
 
01:38 - Alexis (Host)
Look at this Green, Green back red front Nick and Keith right. Yeah, yeah, this was an album cover that won the Grammy Award in 1982 for best album package. 
 
01:56 - Sam (Host)
The cover itself won. I did not know that, yeah. 
 
01:58 - Alexis (Host)
That's very cool. Yeah, because it's super fancy. No one quite knew that that was them on the cover. 
 
02:07 - Sam (Host)
Oh yeah, that was the thing. People didn't know who the person on the cover was. 
 
02:11 - Alexis (Host)
Yeah, exactly Exactly, which is sick. I love it. I love it yeah. 
 
02:16 - Sam (Host)
Did you say 72? It won the Grammy 1982? 82. I didn't even listen. Yeah, it's really cool. Yeah, my first ever Rolling Stones album I've listened to top to bottom. 
 
02:30 - Alexis (Host)
I'm sorry what I'm not judging, but I'm a little bit judging. It's all right. We just opened this world for you, Sam, it's fine. It's fine, all right. Well, popping the Rolling Stones, cherry, what was your top pick? 
 
02:48 - Sam (Host)
You'll love this. It was the one that sounded what I think sounded the least like classic Stones. I've heard plenty of their tracks before, but I had not listened to an entire album top to bottom, and all of a sudden, Heaven came out of nowhere and I just went. This is cool. I went into my ambient to an entire album, top to bottom, and all of a sudden heaven came out of nowhere and I just went. 
 
03:13
This is cool. I went, went into my ambient state and I loved it. Oh, ambient sound really cool, was not expecting it and just the the amount of the amount of soundscape in that track compared to the rest of the album was just out of left field and fantastic. It was really cool yeah do you know? What I've got a deep dive of bob clear mountain, which we'll talk about in a second because you've got a question. 
 
03:36 - Alexis (Host)
Well, what else was the like? What else was the cherry on top boy of Heaven as a top um? 
 
03:47 - Sam (Host)
Look, I have to look at it again because I've forgotten the very few lyrics that are in there, because I was listening to some other cool stuff as well. 
 
03:55 - Alexis (Host)
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. 
 
03:56 - Sam (Host)
But just the lyrics being so simple and
 
04:06 - Alexis (Host)
 but you're not normally a lyrics man. That's usually my job. I'm meant to be a lyrics girl. 
 
04:09 - Sam (Host)
All of the listening I did in this was all about lyrics for some reason. It's a little bit. The first line's a little bit creepy, but you know I don't think it's actually meant to be creepy. It is beautiful, but first line's interesting. After that it's very cool. Like senses be praised is kind of fun. The first line is what it's the smell of you, what, yeah, the smell of you, baby, my senses, my senses be praised, which on its own is either really beautiful or quite creepy. 
 
04:40
When you listen to the music it's poetic so, so embedded into the sound that you don't necessarily listen to the lyrics too much, so I had to look them up. It was very cool. No one will harm you. No one will stand in your way. 
 
04:57 - Alexis (Host)
Oh, that's a good line. 
 
04:58 - Sam (Host)
It's beautiful. 
 
04:59 - Alexis (Host)
That is a good line. 
 
05:01 - Sam (Host)
I did enjoy that. What was yours? 
 
05:04 - Alexis (Host)
Tops was my favourite track, but can I have an honourable mention? 
 
05:12 - Sam (Host)
You have done in the past, so we'll allow it okay, great. 
 
05:15 - Alexis (Host)
Um Slave is just like super close second for me why is it a close second? 
 
05:23 - Sam (Host)
because we're going to talk about tops in a minute. Why is Slave a close second? 
 
05:26 - Alexis (Host)
oh, I just it has. It's just got this vibe. That's just like such an anthem, oh yeah. 
 
05:34 - Sam (Host)
Are you talking about the lyrics? 
 
05:36 - Alexis (Host)
Yeah, well, the whole thing, both Tops and Slave. It's earworms, they just like get stuck in there. 
 
05:43 - Sam (Host)
See, Slave got me because it grooved so hard. It was really hard. 
 
05:47 - Alexis (Host)
Yes hard to groove. Yeah, I thought you'd. 
 
05:50 - Sam (Host)
I thought that would be your top pick actually well, like you said, I would have ignored the lyrics completely and gone. This sounds great exactly yeah, for those listening and watching. If you ever hear me talk about lyrics, it's rare, because these are is it? 
 
06:03 - Alexis (Host)
this is so rare? Music yes yeah, exactly, I'm the lyric girl. You're not so much, we're getting there. 
 
06:14 - Sam (Host)
There are some other albums for later in the season, that yeah. 
 
06:19 - Intro (None)
I love this. 
 
06:20 - Sam (Host)
Mm-hmm. but Tops, because I didn't. Honestly, I only listened through Tops once, so you'll have to describe to me more about what made that your top pick oh,
 
06:26 - Alexis (Host)
I really see this is gonna I'm not gonna, uh, explain it very well, but it's almost like, though, just the vibe, it, just from the minute that it comes in, from the minute it finishes, it has my full attention yeah yeah, full attention, and that's like lyrics and musically the arrangements. It's just yeah, fully has me and I'm like in it, love that that's fantastic yeah yeah, very cool. 
 
07:07 - Sam (Host)
Now I've gone a little bit of a deep dive deep dive, go, go go Heaven um, because, noticing that heaven as a track, specifically names bob clear mountain as the mixer and one of the engineers on the record. 
 
07:23
So I went that's a cool little thing to add in, and shame on me having never heard this guy's name before, because there's a quote from I think it's sound on Sound Magazine that says he has his name on more pop records. What is it? No, he has his name on more hit records than any other person in history and yeah
 
07:48
So I went okay, let. Okay, let's go Now. Wikipedia shout out make sure you donate to Wikipedia because they are still free. Please donate. I don't know if the tax deductible I hope it is, but either way, donate to Wikipedia, not sponsored. He is nominated, I believe, for 10 Grammys as a mixer engineer for live recordings. He's won three, and he's won two Emmys on six nominations for live mixes of concerts that are televised. Like this, dude was the live sound engineer in Live Aid the original Live Aid. 
 
08:29 - Alexis (Host)
Yeah, see, look, that's Oliver. 
 
08:32 - Sam (Host)
And then he won, nominated, won a Grammy in 2023. 
 
08:39 - Alexis (Host)
Wait, that's like somewhat recent. 
 
08:42 - Sam (Host)
His first nomination was 1995. And his last nomination he didn't win this one, I don't think. Hang on. No his last nomination was 2023. His first nomination was 1993, not 1995, for MTV Unplugged. 
 
09:04 - Alexis (Host)
Awesome. 
 
09:05 - Sam (Host)
That's in the Emmys, Grammys, first nomination, 92. Last nomination, again 2023. Corey Henry had him as his producer. 
 
09:16 - Alexis (Host)
Oh, not surprised, why wouldn't you? 
 
09:19 - Sam (Host)
So maybe I need to go and listen to that album again. Corey Henry, oh my god. 
 
09:26 - Alexis (Host)
Maybe that's for a future episode. 
 
09:29 - Sam (Host)
Live at the piano. Corey Henry, gotta get on it. 
 
09:32 - Alexis (Host)
All right, add it to the list,
 
09:34 - Sam (Host)
All you Australia, Snarky Puppy fans, get your tickets. Next year 10th anniversary, there’s another album. Let's go Albums everywhere. 
 
09:47 - Alexis (Host)
Add it to the list. 
 
09:50 - Sam (Host)
Yes, I've got another tangent. I got distracted, again. 
 
09:52 - Alexis (Host)
I love this. Do you know what? As a full album, though, I really liked the little dabbles of brass, like the bits of saxophone that got dubbed in. That's one of the reasons why Slave is like my second favourite. Yeah, we've got saxophones all over now Saxophone yeah, reasons why slave is like my second favourite. I just absolutely yeah, saxophone slave and in waiting on a friend. 
 
10:19 - Sam (Host)
Yeah, which I just listened to again about 20 minutes ago yeah, gorgeous, gorgeous, gorgeous song um just makes me want to learn brass. 
 
10:30 - Alexis (Host)
I don't need to add any more instruments to the repertoire. 
 
10:35 - Sam (Host)
You can learn whatever you want. 
 
10:37 - Alexis (Host)
Don't tempt me. Don't tempt me. 
 
10:40 - Sam (Host)
I will tempt you all you want. For those of you who know me as a musician, yeah, you dabble in all of the things, find something shiny and go and try it. That's how it works. 
 
10:50 - Alexis (Host)
I just pulled a pic out of nowhere upside down. Oh it's glorious. 
 
11:01 - Sam (Host)
But I love it. Welcome to the visual world of podcasts I love this. 
 
11:06 - Alexis (Host)
I love this.
 
11:09 - Sam (Host)
If you're listening and not watching. I just showed the camera at guitar pitch for the second time. 
 
11:14 - Alexis (Host)
I think it sums up our friendship quite well. 
 
11:18 - Sam (Host)
Yeah, I agree, but I don't know. Oh, show and tell right. 
 
11:21 - Alexis (Host)
Show and tell. You're like where's she going with this? 
 
11:24 - Sam (Host)
I agree, but I don't understand. 
 
11:28 - Alexis (Host)
It's time. 
 
11:29 - Sam (Host)
It's time, it's time, there we go. 
 
11:32 - Alexis (Host)
All right, my love, I will chat to you later. 
 
11:35 - Sam (Host)
We will speak to you again very shortly. Rolling Stones Tattoo You. 
 
11:40 - Alexis (Host)
I know what a banger Get it into your ears. Get it into the earworms. Earworms. 
 
11:46 - Sam (Host)
Okay, see you in episode three. 
 
11:49 - Alexis (Host) 
See you, brother. 
 
11:48 - Alexis (Host)
See you in episode three. See you, brother. Bye. Thanks for tuning in for another episode of Through the Creative Door. If you enjoy our episodes and find value in them, consider supporting us by making a donation. Just visit buymeacoffeecom. Forward slash through the creative door or via the link in our Instagram bio, where you can choose an amount and even write us a little message. Every little bit helps and we truly appreciate all of your support. But if you can't donate, no worries, you can still help us out by sharing our podcast with your friends and family and leaving a review on your favourite platform. Thanks so much for being part of our community. We'll catch you on the next episode. Bye. 

2 | Dancing Between Artforms with Holly Rowan

In this episode, host Alexis sits down with Holly, a multi-talented artist with classic Renaissance vibes, whose work spans clowning, physical theatre, folk music, and a rich background in Butoh dance, jazz, ballet, contemporary dance, and musical theatre.
They discuss Holly's journey into the world of clowning and the emotional depth it brings to their artistry, their love for physical theatre as a storytelling medium, and how their background in dance and musical theatre has shaped their creative approach. Holly also opens up about their process of balancing vulnerability and humour in their performances, the connections between different art forms, and the power of folk music in telling deeply human stories.
If you’d like to see more, you can follow Holly on instagram; @ hollyrowanarts
 
This episode was recorded on 14 December 2024 on the lands of the Woiworung Peoples. We hope that this episode inspires you as a creative person and as a human being.
Thanks for listening, catch you on the next episode.
Psst! We are always on the lookout for creative people to share their story and inspire others. Have you got someone in mind who would love to have a chat? Get in contact with us via Instagram @throughthecreativedoor
 
…
Creative resources from Holly Rowan:
@hollyrowanarts 
 
@hollyrowilderbeans 
Let’s get social:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/throughthecreativedoor/ 
TikToc: https://www.tiktok.com/@ttcdpodcast
 
CREDITS
Created and Hosted by Alexis Naylor
Music by Alexis Naylor & Ruby Miguel
Edited and Produced by Ruby Miguel
00:09 - Alexis (Host)
Hello, my name is Alexis Naylor and I am your host here at Through the Creative Door. On behalf of myself and my guests, I would like to acknowledge the traditional owners and custodians on which this podcast is recorded and produced. Owners and custodians on which this podcast is recorded and produced. May we pay our respects to all First Nations people and acknowledge Elders, past and present. On this podcast, I'll be chatting to an array of creative guests, getting a glimpse into their worlds and having some honest and inspiring conversations along the way. I'm delighted to welcome you to Through the Creative Door. 
Hello, holly, how are you? 
 
00:52 - Holly (Guest) 
I'm good, how are you? 
 
00:54 - Alexis (Host) 
Welcome to Through the Creative Door. Well, I'm actually through your door in your lovely home,
 
1:01 - Holly (Guest) 
Very cute Little world, a home in Elwood. 
 
1:05 - Alexis (Host) 
I love this, I love this. But before we get started, let's dive into a little bit about you. I mean, it's not a little bit, there's a lot about you. Yes, you, oh my goodness, you are a performer, you're a musician. I feel like we, off mic, delved into clowning and that wonderful, glorious world which I'm sure we'll circle back to at some point. We also, off mic, talked about, like, all the different instruments that you played and how much music's been, you know, at the forefront of your life from a young age and all that beautifulness, um, and now, into this new season of you having, you know, folk music and you've, like, organized this collective and you're doing, yeah, all this amazing stuff in the arts and and, yeah, I'm missing so much. But like, what else are you up to? 
 
02:09 - Holly (Guest)
Yeah, what else am I up to? I feel like I don't have any time at the moment. I feel like I do so much different things. Yeah, I'm very much in the birth canal of a reimagining of a solo show in an ensemble form at the moment and we're exploring, yeah, druidry, which is sort of the ancient way of being in the UK. It's very tied to the land, and, yeah, druidry, folklore and and being bards, um, yeah, and kind of connecting with nature, and that's that's kind of the project that we're exploring at the moment and it feels like all of the different trainings and practices that I've ever done are all coming together. It's the first time I've brought my music stuff into a theatre space. It's the first time I've brought my nature connection work into that space as well, and so, and also spirituality, it's all kind of coming together and it's also autobiographical, so like it's all kind of my personal experiences so, yeah, it's pretty. 
 
03:28 - Alexis (Host)
And of course, all your dance experience. 
 
03:30 - Holly (Guest)
Yes, and like movement as well. Yeah, theater and yeah, yeah, so it's all kind of coming together in one big clump. 
 
03:36 - Alexis (Host)
I love this. yes, oh yeah, the creative way. 
 
03:42 - Holly (Guest)
Yes, I love it. 
 
03:54 - Alexis (Host)
You have covered so many and continue to cover so many disciplines. But what does a creative space mean to you and why? 
 
04:09 - Holly (Guest)
Yeah, I feel like I have so many different creative spaces um, that aren't like conventional, like spaces I go to. I think um, for me I feel most creative in transit, whether I'm walking, cycling, on a train, on train, on an aeroplane. It's quite amazing. My brain just like works in a completely different way and I'm suddenly like in this like portal of kind of imagination. So I always tap into that. 
 
04:36
I make sure I'm giving myself that space in my day, like actually carving out the space to be creative. 
 
04:46
I feel like I have to actually make time um, otherwise being creative is like a distraction from an admin thing I'm trying to do and that doesn't feel honourable enough in a way. 
 
04:58
Um, but yeah, recently also I've become a member of Melbourne Actors Guild, which is where we're rehearsing and it's a really nice studio in St Kilda with a little sprung floor and it's really cosy and there's a little kitchen. I feel like the ethos of that community and the different artists who are there is it just keeps me going. Being part of a collective and being able to come back to the same space and actually having that space be separate from where I live I think for me has become really important, um, for majority of my creative life I've been using my living room because I couldn't afford to rent a like a kind of big studio space, apart from when I was at uni, where you're sort of given a white wall and you're like, what am I going to do with that? And you know, um, but it's sort of given to you on a plate, I think, at uni and then afterwards take it away after you graduate. 
 
05:57 - Alexis (Host)
Yeah, I had to, really find, uh, my own way. 
 
06:01 - Holly (Guest)
And also another one is the forest um, yeah, getting into parks and I started dancing in parks, um, which was really overwhelming. Actually, at the beginning I felt super vulnerable, um, just dancing in public, you know, and it was a good, good practice. But, um, that also gets me really creative, like being with trees trees, yeah, and that's free, you know, I don't have to pay a lot of time to be in nature, so so I think I've really tried to find really sustainable, non money associated ways of getting that creativity. But now I've got the membership at the Guild, to be honest, it's really put everything in the right boxes for me, so it's felt a lot more possible. 
 
06:53 - Alexis (Host)
Do you feel that there's like a frame of mind, when you step into having that external space that's not in your home, that's like conducive to creating? 
 
07:03 - Holly (Guest)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's really um, yeah, and I think when I did my induction with Melbourne Actors Guild, we sort of spoke about that. We spoke about how, you know, this is a space for this and it's an intentional space, and when you come in, you know like have an intention and really like make it this space for your creative growth. Um, and I really take that seriously, like I really yeah, and it really works as well, like it really works to be able to say you know, this is what I'm going to do today and I'm going to commit like um, and just having a space that like has, you know, the tables and the chairs and a piano and like a mirror and all these things that could be come in handy, you know it's. It is actually really helpful. Like I've kind of made do without that for a really long time, but I feel like, yeah, it definitely is worth it yeah, I love that. 
 
07:59 - Alexis (Host)
I also love that practice of stating an intention when you have a session or like a yeah it's. 
 
08:07 - Holly (Guest)
I think we could all benefit from doing that yeah, yeah, and you know I arrive in that space in all kinds of different states, you know, like emotionally, and I think just being like working with that, but also being like this is what this is why we're here today, you know, and then we all kind of drop in together. I think it really helps, yeah. 
 
08:26 - Alexis (Host)
You have just mentioned before about some of the stuff that you're working on at the moment, but I'd like to circle back to if you could pick something that you're most proud of creating and how it came about and that I'm sure is going to be a difficult one considering how many streams have created? Maybe you have one for each, one for dance, one for theater, yeah, it's really, um. 
 
09:02 - Holly (Guest)
I also think like I sometimes don't wait long enough after I do things to reflect on what they were or how I felt about them, like I actually feel like I'm already thinking about the next thing. 
 
09:20
But I would say I'm really proud of recently, like how I've just committed to the same themes since I've left uni. I feel like, even though performances have looked different, I feel like I've been working in a way that's been really true to myself throughout my whole practice and I've kind of allowed that to ebb and flow into like other areas. But it's it's. It feels like an accumulative kind of creative journey and I think I'm proud of how I've committed to that, like regardless of what's gone on in my life. 
 
10:00
So I don't think I can pinpoint like a particular project that I'm like super proud of. I think it's really um, how I've kind of stuck to my guns creatively and like, um, yeah, committed to my, my own journey and what I care about and that being the forefront of, like whatever project I'm making. Um, because I think it's reaped a lot of rewards. Like, but, yeah, I think, just holding on to my creative agency, I'm just like really proud of that because it's really hard, like because you don't really get a lot of like instant gratification from that kind of thing. 
 
10:40 - Alexis (Host)
No, no, no. 
 
10:43 - Holly (Guest)
It's really so. I think I'm happy about that. 
 
10:45 - Alexis (Host)
Yeah, yeah yeah, oh, I love that. What a beautiful answer. It's true like it is hard to pinpoint, but sometimes, yeah, we do need to allow a little bit of space after projects. I can really empathize with that comment of um. You know you're already before you've even finished a project, you're probably leading another three like 
 
11:02 - Holly (Guest)
Yeah, and my mind just doesn't, like, it doesn't quite rest, like I have this very sort of excited creative elf inside my brain that is just constantly like but what if we did this and we did that? And you know, on to the next thing. It's very um hungry and um excitable and it's kind of out of wonder, like it's very innocent, but it's also like kind of tiring sometimes and like I think I have to really consciously create rest after projects, because I get on such a high, especially when it's to do with performing and I've like nailed it, I'm like we're gonna do a tour we're gonna do this and you know I'll sit and have these chats with my partner, be like I'm tired and blah, blah, blah and then two days later I'll be doing applications for festivals. 
 
12:01
You know it's quite. I'm still working on that, yeah. 
 
12:13
Would, you say that that would be one of the challenging things that you face. Yeah, I'd say, yeah, balancing rest and kind of go-getter-ness. I think there's not. There's not a kind of set. I mean I don't believe anything's set, but I don't think there's a very clear path set out for creatives and I don't think that there's a huge amount of like respect around. You know the way, the time and effort that actually is required, and for me, I'm a big believer in like I need to have enough money to be able to feed myself, and there's certain things that I can't compromise like, and so what I'm currently dealing with the biggest challenge is like accepting that I have a full-time creative career and I have a full-time, um Pilates and swim teaching career, like alongside, and that I'm basically working double hours. Um, I mean, luckily, with swimming and Pilates, you can't teach more than like 20 hours a week without losing your mind or your body anyway, because it's quite like physically intense um, but yeah, I think, like where I'm at is, you know, the challenge is keeping all of that fun, um, when I feel like sometimes I don't have enough time to rest or I can't afford to like go away or I can't afford to like. Um, you know, like we're coming up to Christmas now and like both myself and my partner are like casual workers and artists and we're kind of like trying to figure out how to get through Christmas, you know, like because we take a set amount of time off work, and so I think that's the challenge at the moment is like trying to. 
 
14:07
So I think that's the challenge at the moment is like trying to find ways to keep things really sustainable. 
 
14:11
But also, you know, I think as soon as I start putting the need to be paid for my art, like for that to be guaranteed, as soon as I start putting that first, I feel like my spiritual connection to my art kind of dies, like I think there's. It adds a pressure that I don't want. I really want it to be a space where, like, there's no stakes and there's no you know where I feel like you know what, if I'm investing money into it, it's out of love and it's not out of like fear, yeah, and so I sort of treat it like a baby. I'm like you know, this is my child and like I'm unconditionally loving this thing into the world and yeah, and but I need to be able to invest in it in a sustainable and comfortable way, I think, for it to really flow, um yeah and that's the thing with I mean kudos to people who were able to hustle and, you know, do multiple revenue streams within the arts to get that to work. 
 
15:13 - Alexis (Host)
But it does like it makes certain decisions creatively. You make different decisions because financial dependence on that. Yeah, definitely financial dependence on that. 
 
15:30
Yeah, so there is some kind of freedom and and I have a full-time job, a day job that I do for exactly that reason, so that when I close that laptop I open up the other one, or I sit at the piano and and I do all my other creative things, but I can at least know that a roof's over my head there, there's food in the fridge and that bit of needs is just covered and I can just play. 
 
15:50 - Holly (Guest)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, and I think if I have that, then I can be more creative. You know, yeah, and I think this year it's been particularly more difficult because I've had some like health challenges come through where I've had to like put more money into that as well as the creative projects. It's been a real stretch, like particularly the last few months. But you know, I think the more I can like dig deep and kind of find the ways and means to provide for that, you know it's going to really help me like, yeah, and I think teaching Pilates is great because, honestly, I don't think about my classes before I go in and I get to make playlists and I just move about with people and I just I find it so how glorious. Yeah, I don't really get stressed by it at all. You know, I kind of just go in and and that's what I need. 
I need a job where I kind of don't need to think too much like about what I'm doing, so that I can dream more yeah, 
 
16:50 - Alexis (Host)
I find, when I'm driving or running, all my creative juices it's like what you were saying about, like the transport or whatever it's like. Yeah, if you do jobs that are too strong, yeah, your creative juices won't yeah, flow, 
 
16:58 - Holly (Guest)
if you have to think about work at home, that's not for me. I want to be able to just clock off and be able to do my other life. 
 
17:15 - Alexis (Host)
Yeah, your other loves, yeah, yeah, yeah. When you're creating, do you have an object or thing that you can't live without? 
 
17:27 - Holly (Guest)
This is an interesting one, I feel like for me, I don't have much of a relationship with objects. 
 
17:39 - Alexis (Host)
No, lucky socks. No, I feel very ephemeral as a human being. I feel very ephemeral. 
 
17:43 - Holly (Guest)
as a human being, I think I had a phase where I collected leaves and feathers and bits of bark and I'd have them in my pockets. 
 
17:59 - Alexis (Host)
You sound like one of those birds that go and collect all these things and put them in their nest, except your pockets are your nest. 
 
18:05 - Holly (Guest)
Yeah, literally, and I kind of just walk around with them and like go and collect all these things and like put them in their nest except your pockets are your nest. Yeah, literally, and I kind of just walk around with them and like you know all like little acorns or like random things that I find, and then I'll find them in my bag, like I don't know, and they're always with me, but I don't really think about them. Like I'm so kind of consumed by the moment and like whatever interaction I'm having, um, yeah, and also I lose everything. I find it really hard to like hold on to things and like not lose them. Like I leave my water bottles everywhere, so I've just accepted that I have to drink out of water fountains now. 
 
18:40 - Alexis (Host)
Maybe that's good that you're like picking up bits of nature, because then when you leave it somewhere, it goes back into nature 
 
18:49 - Holly (Guest) 
exactly, yeah, yeah, low stakes, but also it's kind of interesting and pretty and you, you find different things every day because it all changes, like, like, you'll see a leaf on the floor one day and then it will just like not be there the next day, and it's not because I've taken it, but it's because, like, it's gone somewhere else 
 
19:05 - Alexis (Host)
you you like I took it and then I put it somewhere and I can't remember where I put it 
 
19:07 - Holly (Guest)
yeah yeah, like I don't know that it's kind of more part of like a cyclical thing, imps and flows yeah, so yeah, but I'd say I'm actually really unsentimental when it comes to objects and I kind of don't give them very much power. I'm much more of like an energy person. Yeah, like, yeah, I think that's. That's where I'm at
 
19:31 - Alexis (Host)
 I love it. Yeah, the beach, ocean being in bodies of water. If that could be my object, that would be mine. Something about that energy 
 
19:40 - Holly (Guest)
yeah, yeah so good, and that could be an interesting warm-up, isn't it? Just go into the sea, like the space turns into the ocean and what happens to you? 
 
19:51 - Alexis (Host)
like yeah yeah, just bob around, float around, yeah, literally, if you could give one piece of advice, one nugget of gold to another creative, what would it be? 
 
20:10 - Holly (Guest)
yeah, I'd say don't pigeonhole yourself, like unless it feels right, unless you're like, oh my god, I'm just, uh, this particular type of singer and this is what I do and I'm, you know, in love with it. But I'd just say like, um, yeah, kind of explore things that perhaps are a bit edgy or a bit uncomfortable, um, and find out why. Um, I think, like I'm definitely sort of a jack of all trades, master of none kind of person, and like that's not the full quote, you know what's the full quote? 
 
20:52 - Alexis (Host)
you'll need to google it after this, because jack of all trades, master of none. The next bit's something about how it's still better than only being a master of one something like that so yeah yeah and I think you know I'm sorry to listeners for me wrong quoting that, but it's something like that still better to have dabbled in lots of things yeah,
 
20:58 - Holly (Guest)
I think um, yeah, for me there's something society like, when I'm speaking to people who maybe don't have much relationship with the arts and they kind of know ballet and musical theatre and everything like that, and I think there's this sort of air of you know you need to choose. I think, especially like coming out of like university, for example, you know you need to have a plan and you need to choose. And I think my life trajectory has been very different and I think it's taken me a really long time to grow into it, basically like the whole of my 20s to sort of grow into the fact that I need to be doing multiple things and I work in a very multidisciplinary way. And that's who I am as an artist. And I think like, the more people we can allow to do that the better. 
 
22:11
So I think like, rather than um, trying to squeeze yourself into other people's boxes, I'd say like, ask how people can accommodate you as an artist instead, like um and yeah, and also, you know, like, for me that's led me into like a director to territory, like, because I have a like, a particular way of working that I really enjoy and I find it more challenging to be directed because I want to do my kind of creative thing. But I think it's really important for me to be directed and to be in ensemble spaces where I'm kind of not leading it, um, but I'd say that's less comfortable for me but I do it like I make myself do it because it's really important for my kind of creative learning and I think, yeah, just kind of being, um, allowing yourself to go into all the different roles, even production team, you know, producing I've self-produced and I've done some stage managing stuff and seeing the art from different perspectives and different roles I think can be really. 
 
23:16
It just really helps, like you become a person who can work with others in different ways in different capacities 
 
23:26 - Alexis (Host) 
you have some sort of capacity, understanding of where they're coming from 
 
23:30 - Holly (Guest)
yeah, because I think being in the arts is really about community like hugely yeah, it's super, it's a super important part of it. Um, and I think you know, I've had to learn so much about myself and my tendencies and like the way I connect with people and I've had to like really kind of work on that and work on triggers and all these different things that can happen in rehearsal spaces and like, um, yeah, and I think just allowing yourself to go through different phases and kind of explore different things is really important. 
 
24:07 - Alexis (Host)
I love that. If someone wanted to do what you do in all of the ways such a loaded question, the ways, such a loaded question. But what resources or advice in regards to training, um, any of that kind of stuff, if someone wanted to, you know, develop their creative process? What advice would you give about that um? 
 
24:36 - Holly (Guest)
Go to another country. 
 
24:43 - Alexis (Host)
Oh, yeah off mic we talked about you. 
You got a opportunity to go to india yeah, yeah, yeah. 
 
24:49 - Holly (Guest)
Like, I think for me, my biggest uh and best kind of creative experiences have been in global majority communities. So, um, yeah, and I think that's because in like the main art form that I'm kind of interested in the moment, which is theatre, like it's about humanity, and I think we can get a really skewed um idea of that if we're sort of relying on eurocentric educational systems and I think, getting out um to the global south, I would say actually like and and really kind of challenging the eurocentric mindset. Um, I think for me that really gave way to some super interesting stuff that I never would have found otherwise. And I think also going into creative spaces where you feel really comfortable and seen, and if there aren't spaces where you are, where you can have that, to find somewhere, I think it's always possible. Um, I know for me I needed to get out of London and out of the competition and and the kind of yeah, it's just very competitive and very like snap snap now. Now, you know, and India 
 
26:18
India's just was just, it was still. We achieved so much, but it was through such a different approach and like learning that we can we don't have to know everything we can actually fully embody the creative process and allow it to take us on a journey and like, yes, we can refine things and we can. You know, got good critical thinking and all this stuff, but it's, it was just a lot more human to me, like and also working with different cultures and different ideas of the world. Um, it just feels so important right now, like to consider that in work, um, yeah, so I just think, yeah, get out of your country, go to another country, um, and immerse yourself in in other people's way of thinking and doing and making. 
 
27:16 - Alexis (Host)
Oh, such wise words, such wise words. One extra question If you could hear another creative come on this podcast, who would it be and why?
 
27:31 - Holly (Guest)
Do you know what it would be? My dance teacher from India? Ooh yeah, Prashant Mori. He's so wise, like just probably like the most humble person I've ever met in my life, and he's super quiet but when he speaks he's like profound, everything's profound. Yeah, it's gold, and um, yeah, I don't know. I just think he would add something really incredible, yeah, cool to the podcast. Um, yeah, he's in india. He like teaches all over India, but he has like the most incredible lifestyle oh, did him, so I just have to go to india then yeah go find him. 
 
28:18
Go find him. Yeah, I don't know, like he just popped up. Yeah, I mean so many people like I feel so lucky, like to know, um, yeah, so many different humans who would be amazing to talk about their creative life, and I think you know. It just goes to show like, as creatives, we have such different ways of doing things and we're all kind of important. You know, like, and um, everyone would be able to say so many different things and have so many different experiences based on their creative journey yeah, that's so. 
 
28:56 - Alexis (Host)
Oh, holly, this was such a beautiful chat. Thank you so much for gracing us with your time and presence. This was so lovely. 
 
29:09
Thanks for tuning in for another episode of Through the Creative Door. If you enjoy our episodes and find value in them, consider supporting us by making a donation. Just visit buymeacoffeecom. Forward slash through the creative door or via the link in our Instagram bio where you can choose an amount and even write us a little message. Every little bit helps and we truly appreciate all of your support. But if you can't donate, no worries, you can still help us out by sharing our podcast with your friends and family and leaving a review on your favourite platform. Thanks so much for being part of our community. We'll catch you on the next episode. Bye. 

BSIDE Rags To Rufus

Featured Artist: Rufus Feat. Chaka Khan
Featured Vinyl: RAGS TO RUFUS
 
Alexis’ Hot Pick 
You Got the Love
Sam’s Hot Pick
Right Street (But The Wrong Direction)
Thanks for listening, catch you on the next episode.
Psst! We are always on the lookout for an artist's vinyl to listen to, have you got one in mind that we should check out? Get in contact with us via Instagram @throughthecreativedoor
 
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CREDITS
Created and Hosted by Alexis Naylor
Co-Host: Sam Timmerman
Music by Alexis Naylor & Ruby Miguel
Voiceover: Ruby Miguel
Edited and Produced by Ruby Miguel
 
00:09 - 
Welcome to B-Side, the mini-series from Through the Creative Door. Join Alexis and Sam as they dive into the timeless world of vinyl. For Alexis, vinyl was more than music. It was a Sunday ritual she shared with her dad, listening, talking and soaking in the stories behind each album and the artwork on every sleeve. Though her dad is no longer with us, she continues this tradition with her friend, sam Timmerman. Join them as they share their passion for vinyl and the stories these records hold. 
 
00:53 - Alexis (Host)
Hello brother, good day, evening, night, how are you? Afternoon, the night, all of the things, somewhere, it's somewhere, it's glorious. Yeah, I'm good. How are you? 
 
00:58 - Sam (Host)
I'm good, what are we doing? 
 
01:01 - Alexis (Host)
What are we doing? We are going to chat music stuff, and what offering do you have for us to chitty chat about today? 
 
01:12 - Sam (Host)
Well we have it here. 
 
01:15 - Alexis (Host)
Wait, we've got 10 minutes. 
 
01:18 - Sam (Host)
Oh yeah, we decided that we were going to talk for too long as well. For those of you playing at home, have we started the timer? 
 
01:24 - Alexis (Host)
I started the timer. 
 
01:26 - Sam (Host)
Good grief, here we go. Here's one I prepared earlier. I've had this for a long time. I say a long time, I think it's about two years, but that's a long time for some people. This is one of the first records I bought in recent times. It's called Rags to Rufus. This is a Rufus with Chaka Khan and I think my light is playing up. But look at that. 
 
01:53 - Alexis (Host)
I love it. I love this album. I was so excited when you said what we're going to talk about because I was like I froth at this album. So good. 
 
02:04 - Sam (Host)
I just got excited about the album art, but damn, it's good too. 
 
02:09 - Alexis (Host)
So, like yes for those listening, you need to have a look at this Rags to Rufus and look at the vinyl artwork, because it is spectacular. What is that? It's like Sam's throwing it or shoving it into the camera. 
 
02:27 - Sam (Host)
But hopefully, if I think, if I keep talking, people can see it, but that's OK. 
 
02:32 - Alexis (Host)
You need to describe it with your words, Sam. 
 
02:34 - Sam (Host)
Yes, we'll get. We'll get Ruby to put up a thumbnail of it somewhere. 
 
02:39 - Alexis (Host)
Thanks, ruby. 
 
02:41 - Sam (Host)
Somewhere about there on Alexis's face. 
 
02:45 - Alexis (Host)
Hey. 
 
02:46 - Sam (Host)
Look at this. 
 
02:47 - Alexis (Host)
No, it's so beautiful, it looks like. Well, how would how? How did you describe it before you? 
 
02:55 - Sam (Host)
It is physical needle art, it's not CGI, it's not graphically designed or anything. It is genuinely some what I'm thinking a pair of jeans. There's denim involved. There is more denim involved. 
 
03:11 - Alexis (Host)
Hey, gotta love double denim, double denim.
 
03:15 - Sam (Host)
It was 1974,. I mean, and it's all needle stitched through, we have the name of the band in stitching. 
 
03:23 - Alexis (Host)
Yeah, it looks sick. 
 
03:28 - Sam (Host)
There are some oops. I can't hold these things. There are some badges here which are gorgeous, custom badges. It's all done in needlepoint through denim. Anyone who's a fashion designer, please tell me if that's hard or not, because I don't know. 
 
03:41 - Alexis (Host)
Well, I can't sew to save myself, so I would say that it's just hard and on the back. Well, I can't sew to save myself, so I would say that it's just hard. 
 
03:46 - Sam (Host)
And on the back we have an overlaid and comped in photo collage of the band added onto more fabric. Needlepoint that's been photographed. 
 
03:56 - Alexis (Host)
Yeah, that's sick. 
 
03:57 - Sam (Host)
It is. I don't know how people do this, but it's cool and I love it. 
 
04:01 - Alexis (Host)
I'd be so interested to know what the thought process was for them when they decided for this to be the because, like the songs and the album, like it's such a banger, but I can't quite distinguish. Like what does it got to do with that kind of imagery, do you know? 
 
04:23 - Sam (Host)
I do, I agree and I don't have an answer, because you think about through popular music, history and you go. Well, why do half of these album arts exist? Because they have nothing to do with what the music is. Do you reckon that's the point. I think that is the point, particularly with modern vinyl releases. I find myself looking at some album arts and going I love it, but why? 
 
04:49
Yeah, and I find that really fascinating. I do love it. If you're going to make an album art that's this big, why not make it as outlandish as possible or give it some other meaning for people to ask questions on podcasts like we are right now? 
 
05:07 - Alexis (Host)
Exactly I am trying to like google and try and see if anyone can tell me anything about the artwork. I can't find anything 
 
05:16 - Sam (Host)
I only have a name. So far we are. We are google searching live as well for those playing at home Terri Apter-Hughes, who, after a quick search, I have nothing. 
 
05:29 - Alexis (Host)
Right. 
 
05:33 - Sam (Host)
If I was to do a longer search, I may find something and the art direction by a company called Autumn Dreams. And again we're talking 1974. This record is what? What's that now? 50 years this year. 
 
05:43 - Alexis (Host)
Yeah, 50. 
 
05:44 - Sam (Host)
Happy 50th Rags to Rufus
 
05:46 - Alexis (Host)
Happy 50th. 
 
05:48 - Sam (Host)
Should have a party and play the record. 
 
05:54 - Alexis (Host)
I mean, I did that when I was listening to it the other day as I walked down Chapel Street and sang my way down Chapel Street. 
 
06:00 - Sam (Host)
No, you did tell me about that story. Was anyone on Chapel Street at about? I'm not going to say what time it was, because I don't know. 
 
06:07 - Alexis (Host)
Yeah, yes, there is a lot of people down Chapel Street at that time of the day. There's probably video evidence somewhere of you, I mean look, no one knows who I am, so it's fine. 
 
06:18 - Sam (Host)
You'd be surprised. 
 
06:19 - Alexis (Host)
No. 
 
06:20 - Sam (Host)
Oh my God, Alexis, stay low, stop, it's true, oh my God it looks like a snail. Oh, stop. It's true, people know you. Oh, that's a scary thought. People listening to this know you as well. 
 
06:30 - Alexis (Host)
Oh God, that's even more of a scary thought. All right, so what is we're? 
 
06:34 - Sam (Host)
Getting sidetracked again. 
 
06:36 - Alexis (Host)
We are, but I feel like that is the nature of our relationship. 10 minutes, I was going to say 10 minutes, no, no, I was going to say what's your hot pick. 
 
06:50 - Sam (Host)
It caught me out, but after 15, 20, 30 seconds of deliberation also make sure to stay hydrated. Everyone, excuse me. Right Street, I just went. Cool, that one Right Street Wrong Direction, just grooves. 
 
07:07 - Speaker 1 (Announcement)
Yeah, opening beats. 
 
07:11 - Sam (Host)
I'm more of a music listener than a lyric listener. I'm not good at hearing lyrics. 
 
07:16 - Alexis (Host)
I am going to convert you as the singer-songwriter in me. You will, you will. By the end of our life together, you will be more of a lyric person. 
 
07:27 - Sam (Host)
That's a slightly scary sentence to hear, but that's okay. 
 
07:32 - Alexis (Host)
By the end of your life, you will be this yes, you will have come to the other side, and this is the timeline that you're going to be looking at to the end of your life. 
 
07:40 - Sam (Host)
No, we Right Street I mean it's I don't know again. Title lyric Right Street, wrong Direction. A lot of fun. I will go listen to the lyrics again. Everyone, I'm so sorry, but I'm all about those horn lines and it was I think it was Ron Stockett, the lead vocalist for Rufus as the band itself, without Chaka, who did all the horn and string arrangements, which is great to see to see the band members themselves writing yeah, writing the arrangements. It's very, I feel like that's that was the norm in 70s, 80s in general, but it's so nice to hear records that are all internally done. 
 
08:24
Yeah it's so nice to hear records that are all internally done. Yeah, not to say that there aren't some amazing songs and records made in the era of 50 songwriting credits, but at the same time, and I think that's the thing. 
 
08:35 - Alexis (Host)
it doesn't matter how, as long as you're you're not doing a disservice to what's getting created, however many bodies it needs to create i. 
 
08:44 - Sam (Host)
Exactly, that's it. 
 
08:46 - Alexis (Host)
A way to say yeah, what a banging song. Yeah. 
 
08:50 - Sam (Host)
What's yours, go on first in. You've got the love, mmm yep okay, no one ever listen to our singing, please, because we shout out to Tom Thumb he would do a whole lot better at that guitar sound not my forte. 
 
09:15 - Alexis (Host)
But geez, and just those, those, those bloody vocal lines like the oh, sweeping, amazing, cuts through. 
 
09:31 - Sam (Host)
And what got me with that one was, I mean again writing brain, not lyric brain, but what I would think about, as the chorus is two and a half minutes into the track. Once those backing vocals are in, I see that that's a chorus, but then so much happens before it, that's absolutely gold. I'm just picturing the YouTube watch history peek 25 seconds before the end of the track. 
 
10:01 - Alexis (Host)
Or the kickoff. As I listen to the first track, it keeps you on your toes. And as a first song on a record. I'm just like constantly, like I absolutely adore tracks where it finishes and I'm like, no, no, I wasn't ready, I wasn't ready for it to finish, not ready. 
 
10:19 - Sam (Host)
I challenge the musos out there who haven't listened to this record to put it on and start clicking the pulse as soon as you hear the start. Don't wait for the drums. 
 
10:27 - Alexis (Host)
Yes, true, True, true true. 
 
10:29 - Sam (Host)
Genius, absolute genius. 
 
10:32 - Alexis (Host)
No, it's such a banger. But I mean, look side two, like as if no one's going to like tell me something good is like an absolute banger. 
 
10:45 - Sam (Host)
We didn't say that this is the record that tell me something good comes from. 
 
10:49 - Alexis (Host)
Yeah, so I don't know flip one side, flip the other. 
 
10:54 - Sam (Host)
Every, every soul musician, every most cover band musicians, I reckon, have played that song sometime and speaks to the track where everyone just plays it like they heard it on the record. No one wants to change it. 
 
11:07 - Alexis (Host)
I mean I'm not worthy to change. I mean, Stevie Wonder, bloody, wrote it. Yeah, exactly, do not touch. Perfection, don't touch. Oh my god, that's time, that's time. 
 
11:24 - Sam (Host)
Down credits to Apple. 
 
11:29 - Alexis (Host)
Hashtag not sponsored. 
 
11:31 - Sam (Host)
Hashtag not sponsored. Stay hydrated Hashtag not sponsored. 
 
11:36 - Alexis (Host)
Oh god, alright brother. 
 
11:38
It's been a pleasure see you next time 
Thanks for tuning in for another episode of through the creative door. If you enjoy our episodes and find value in them, consider supporting us by making a donation. Just visit buymeacoffeecom, forward slash through the creative door or via the link in our Instagram bio where you can choose an amount and even write us a little message. Every little bit helps and we truly appreciate all of your support. But if you can't donate, no worries, you can still help us out by sharing our podcast with your friends and family and leaving a review on your favorite platform. Thanks so much for being part of our community. We'll catch you on the next episode. Bye. 

1 | Making Space for Creativity with Elizabeth Gleeson

Alexis chats with muralist and fine artist Elizabeth, whose bold patterns and vibrant colours have transformed walls worldwide. From her largest mural in Japan to cherished personal commissions, Elizabeth shares how she balances large-scale projects with meaningful personal work.
Hear her candid insights on overcoming challenges, monetising creativity, and finding self-worth through art. Whether it’s sentimental socks or playlists fuelling her process, Elizabeth’s journey is a powerful reminder to embrace boldness and beauty in every creative step.
 
If you’d like to see more, you can follow Elizabeth on instagram; @ elizabeth.gleeson.artist
 
This episode was recorded on 13 October 2024 on the lands of the Woiworung Peoples. We hope that this episode inspires you as a creative person and as a human being.
Thanks for listening, catch you on the next episode.
Psst! We are always on the lookout for creative people to share their story and inspire others. Have you got someone in mind who would love to have a chat? Get in contact with us via Instagram @throughthecreativedoor
 
…
Creative resources from Elizabeth Gleeson:
The Creative Act: A Way Of Being by Rick Ruben 
Let’s get social:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/throughthecreativedoor/ 
TikToc: https://www.tiktok.com/@ttcdpodcast
 
CREDITS
Created and Hosted by Alexis Naylor
Music by Alexis Naylor & Ruby Miguel
Edited and Produced by Ruby Miguel
 
00:09 - Alexis (Host)
Hello, my name is Alexis Naylor and I am your host here at Through the Creative Door. On behalf of myself and my guests, I would like to acknowledge the traditional owners and custodians on which this podcast is recorded and produced. Owners and custodians on which this podcast is recorded and produced. May we pay our respects to all First Nations people and acknowledge Elders, past and present. On this podcast, I'll be chatting to an array of creative guests, getting a glimpse into their worlds and having some honest and inspiring conversations along the way. I'm delighted to welcome you to Through the Creative Door. 
Hello Elizabeth, how are you? 
 
00:53 - Elizabeth (Guest)
Yeah, I'm good. I'm doing great. 
 
00:55 - Alexis (Host) 
I am super chuffed to be here with you. Welcome to Through the Creative Door. You are such a talented bear. Oh, my goodness, you do the most stunning murals. How would I describe it? They're like intricate patterns. Is that the best way to? 
 
01:20 - Elizabeth (Host)
Yeah, that’s a good start. All of my work is really patterned and over the last couple of years I've really embraced colour in a really bold and vibrant way. So it's become an integral part of my work, but yeah, it's always patterned. 
 
01:33 - Alexis (Host)
It's just stunning, and of course, I mean you do other fine artwork as well, but that's definitely like your footprint is these beautiful murals. 
 
01:44 - Elizabeth (Host)
I do the fine artwork, but I will often use the actual artwork design as a mural as well. So once I've completed a fine artwork, that will also be available as a print for people to buy. Or I love, I love doing it like really big, really big scale as well. 
 
02:03 - Alexis (Host)
Yeah, what's the biggest that you've done to date? 
 
02:07 - Elizabeth (Host)
Good question, because I've just come back from a working holiday in Japan where I created my largest mural to date on the front of an 8.5 metre high building. So, yeah, that's the biggest, for sure. 
 
02:23 - Alexis (Host)
How are you with heights? 
 
02:24 - Elizabeth (Host)
Totally fine. Totally fine, and this was a scaffolding job, so there's four levels of scaffolding. There was a team of four of us which was just so fantastic, and scaffolding makes things really really easy. Yeah really accessible. Yeah, really easy. 
 
02:43 - Alexis (Host)
How wonderful. Oh, I love it so much. Well, without further ado, first question; what does a creative space mean to you and why? 
 
02:58 - Elizabeth (Host)
Yeah. So in terms of being able to create, I've always been completely comfortable wherever I am. So, whether I'm in a cafe or on the train, I'm totally fine to sketch anywhere and I love doing that. But a creative space in terms of going to the effort to designate a creative space so that might be in your home, like it is for me, and I share a beautiful studio with my partner or, if it's elsewhere, if you have a group studio or a studio on your own somewhere else I think that designating that creative space specially is about taking your art more seriously and having a more disciplined approach to your creativity, so I think it's really important. 
 
03:54 - Alexis (Host) 
Have you always had a designated space? 
 
03:55 -  Elizabeth (Guest) 
I have, whether it's been like the lower level of a house, where it's like a little pokey space or a particular desk, but it's only been the last couple of years where I've had a studio space, like like I have now. 
 
04:13 - Alexis (Host)
Yeah, yeah beautiful. If you could give me one project or one piece of work that you are most proud of creating. Which one do you think it would be, and like, how did that come about? 
 
04:36 - Elizabeth (Host)
I think I'd probably divert the question to be not so much about one particular work because, I could certainly name a few works that I'm incredibly proud of, um, but I would say that I'm probably the most proud of the style that I've developed, because because it's taken a number of years and it's taken a huge amount of believing in myself, which is quite new to me, actually. 
05:12
So I think that, even though there's a whole heap of really beautiful influences that I draw on that you know come through my work, it's still, at the end of the day, very me and it's become really recognisable. People recognise my work. They can tell when it's like, absolutely that it's, that it's one of my pieces, and I think that that process of developing a style that I'm really proud of, I think it's really beautiful, beautiful and I feel just so fortunate that it seems to really resounds with other people. It mirrors my own kind of inner journey of doing a whole heap of work to develop my, my self-worth and my self-confidence over, say, say, the last five years, yeah. So having this style that I now kind of sit with and work with and love creating, yeah, is a real reflection of kind of a lot of the inner growth that I've done as well as a person. 
 
06:18 - Alexis (Host)
Yeah. 
 
06:18 - Elizabeth (Host)
I am really proud of that. 
 
06:21 - Alexis (Host)
And so you should be. It's stunning, absolutely stunning, thank you, and so you should be. It's stunning, absolutely stunning, thank you. I guess that sort of leads a little bit into and morphs into the next question, which is what's something that's challenged your creativity. 
 
06:37 - Elizabeth (Host)
oh God that's so easy. 
It's time, oh really, okay, yeah, absolutely. I think. For a lot of years I had a really great office job, but it's really time consuming. I have three children and so all of the art that I was creating was needing to fit in between those small gaps, and that's really difficult when, as a creative person, you're kind of bursting with this desire and desire to create and it's a need and I know that you know what I'm talking about and when you're desperate to do that and have an outlet for it and you don't have enough time to do it, for it and you don't have enough time to do it, it leaves you feeling frustrated and unfulfilled. Even if you have a wonderful life and you're very, very fortunate and privileged, it still leaves something that feels like it's missing. So time has certainly been the biggest challenge for me, and I know that any parent could relate to that. 
 
07:43 - Alexis (Host)
How do you think that you've been able to sort of manage or tackle that challenge? 
 
07:50 - Elizabeth (Host)
I have a lot of energy. 
 
07:54 - Alexis (Host)
Well, that hasn't changed. 
 
07:58 - Elizabeth (Host)
And I don't really have much of an off switch. I kind of like and my partner can attest to this I just kind of like go full bore until I drop, and I'm not always very good at listening to my body and that can lead to burnout, and it certainly has um, but I, I can get a lot done. Um. So time, definitely a big one. But fast forward a few years to now, and I'm creating art as my full-time gig and I would say that a new challenge that I'm now facing is more of a financial nature. 
 
08:34
So, as you would well know that, when you start monetizing your creativity, it can open up a whole can of worms, and I'm sure it's like you could do a whole podcast episode on just that alone. For sure, but for me, what it can it often mean, where it becomes a real challenge is that and it. I'm sure it's not unique to muralists especially, but what it means in my case is that if you are stressed financially, you can end up saying yes to jobs that are smaller, so they're not as well paid, but they're still just as taxing in terms of your time and your energy. So financial is a huge challenge and I'm sure that there's not anyone that wouldn't be able to agree with that. That is monetising their creativity. 
 
09:45 - Alexis (Host)
And yeah the money and being able to monetise and yeah, be able to pick the skill sets and being able to say yes to certain things and to say no. And yeah, he brought that up as well. Yeah, and yeah just trying to manoeuvre that. So, yeah, I think not just, like you said, not just mural artists, I think we can all relate. Yeah, I for one can relate as a musician. Yeah, yes, tough landscape, but we push forth. 
 
10:11 - Elizabeth (Host)
Yeah, ideally I'd like to be doing mainly just really big jobs and then doing the smaller jobs in between because I actually really love them. They're often private commissions and they're for families, or I often have a lot of single women that commission me to do murals on their houses or something like that for them privately, and the relationships that are developed I really cherish. Yeah, no, I really love them. So I wouldn't want to stop doing those smaller jobs because they're really fulfilling in their own way, but it does kind of create its own challenges. 
 
10:55 - Alexis (Host)
Have you ever painted a van? 
 
10:58 - Elizabeth (Host)
No, I haven't. But I was having a discussion with a friend yesterday about the possibility of painting his car. Good old Camry, it's like an old beast that's on its way out and he's like, well, well, we may as well. so yeah
 
11:11 - Alexis (Host)
Okay, so this is gonna be an interesting one. I'm curious is there an object that you can't live without when you're creating? Like maybe it's like a sentimental thing or I don't know lucky pair of socks. 
 
11:32 - Elizabeth (Host)
Yeah, yeah, sure, actually, on mural jobs. There's a pair of socks that I always wear On my first day. Yeah, it wasn't actually the answer that I had prepared for this, but it's a pair of socks that my mother-in-law knitted for me for my birthday and I love them and I always wear them on the first day of painting a mural. I don't think she actually knows that. 
 
11:52 - Alexis (Host)
I love that little factoid. This is fantastic. 
 
11:55 - Elizabeth (Host)
Yeah, but usually it's my headphones, because I love listening to music. 
 
12:02 - Alexis (Host)
Have you got any particular artists? 
 
12:10 - Elizabeth (Host)
Artists I really love. I've been on a complete Tori Amos bender recently and you can always often tell what I've been listening to on a particular mural job because I'll often use that as like my mural reel backing on my socials, so you can often tell Okay very well, but I also really love podcasts, often tell okay, but I also really love podcasts, um. 
 
12:34
yeah, I mean, I find headphones really essential because music is um brilliant at helping you, uh, find a mood that you're after, whether you want to be inspired, whether you need to self-soothe because you need to calm down, um, or whether you want to get really pumped up, um and they're also really good when you have children and you need to focus. 
 
12:52 - Alexis (Host)
Try and block them out. Is that what you? Yeah? 
 
12:55 - Elizabeth (Host)
yeah, no, absolutely. But I often find that if I'm kind of through the real nutting out phase of the composition of a work and I'm into that kind of really lovely easier painting, stage, stage, if I'm in the studio, um, I switched to podcasts because then you can kind of feed your brain and take stuff in, because you're not actually trying to nut stuff out. 
 
13:19 - Alexis (Host)
yeah, what is uh your top five podcasts? 
 
13:23 - Elizabeth (Host)
oh, top five. I'll give you a solid top three, okay, well. 
 
13:28 - Alexis (Host)
I'll take it. 
 
13:29 - Elizabeth (Host)
I'll say yours, I'll have to say yeah, my, my favorite podcast over the last um couple of years has been Bench Talk. Bench Talk is a podcast that's hosted by Australian visual artist Tom Gerrard and he himself interviews creatives from actually all over the world. He's traveled a lot and he has got a lot of connections and he's it's wonderful the way he kind of really does, you know deep dives and often asks a similar kind of questions across. And you listen to all of the different kind of podcast episodes and when you hear so many people answer similar questions in a completely different way, it gave me license to realize that I don't have to fit a particular mould. 
 
14:29 - Alexis (Host)
Everyone's tapestry and story is totally different. 
 
14:33 - Elizabeth (Host)
Yeah it really is. So it's actually quite life-changing really listening to that, and also recently I've been listening to the Imperfects. 
 
14:42 - Alexis (Host)
How great is that I love them so much. 
 
14:46 - Elizabeth (Host)
Me too. I was pleasantly surprised. I was a little bit hesitant when I thought I listened to a podcast hosted by three men and they completely surprised me and I have so much respect for the topics that they cover and the guests that they get in who are so smart and so full of wisdom and beautiful insights, and so, yeah, they've been my favourite, and I say any others and that I probably flip around a lot. Yeah, I really like my sleep hypnosis podcast. Sleeping's not my strong suit. 
 
15:26 - Alexis (Host)
If you could give one piece of wisdom, one nugget of advice to another, creative, another human being what would it be? 
 
15:41 - Elizabeth (Host)
So, yeah, certainly, and what I do have to say comes from the perspective of building an art career in order to create an income from it. 
 
15:56
I think that, as creatives, a lot of us are incredibly good at being multi-disciplinary. A lot of us are creative octopuses and we can very happily just flit around all different kinds of things, and it makes us so happy and so fulfilled. But I think that that can be a bit more of a curse than a blessing. If you are trying to build an audience and if you want to build an art career and make an income from it, you do need an audience, and so I think it's really important to have the discipline to focus on one or two mediums and develop a style and stick with it pretty solidly for a while, because otherwise it can be. It can be confusing if you're building an audience and I just don't think that you can do it otherwise. 
I can give you a bit of background on why I feel quite strongly about that in terms of my own backstory, if you like. Yes, please, yeah, okay. So my my backgrounds initially in costume and fashion, and creating through pattern making and sewing was my absolute passion for most of my life and that's how people knew me. Certainly. However, I think was about five years ago. I'd already really started kind of getting into what I was doing. I loved it, but I made a very conscious decision to focus on the drawing, inking, painting of this these command, dallas that I was creating and really pursue that with, pursue more of a mature, disciplined approach, and I'd found this kind of type of drawing that I was doing. I'd started drawing these mandalas really really compulsively in a period of really intense grief about seven years ago, and I was really fascinated with the idea that a mandala is, these repeating segments and the finished results just always so beautiful. But the crux of it is that one section can be quite simple and when you take in really interesting elements that aren't necessarily so traditional in terms of the more kind of, when you think of a mandala being more Indian, tibetan, those, those kind of styles, I really loved that. But I really liked that you could put a bit of twist on it by bringing in like influences, like I really love the art decco and the Art Nouveau period and I am a huge fan of classic architectural design and I was incorporating all those kind of elements of quirky villages and all of these very kind of Art Nouveau style shapes in these mandalas essentially. 
 
And I got invited to do just a small solo exhibition of these, these works just on paper, and I inch them up and I was doing this mandala on the lounge room wall at home and someone invited me to come and do a mandala was more kind of traditional style on their yoga studio wall of their business and everything kind of grew from there. 
 
19:36
And I think it was at that point that I realized that of all the avenues that I could pursue, if I am quite serious about wanting to have an art career at some point that could sustain, sustain me financially, that I was going to need to make a bit more of a commitment and I decided that that was the direction that I was going to go in. And I was just so fascinated by this kind of phenomenon of creating sections and repeating and reflecting them and something that was simple became beautifully complex and detailed and at the same time, something that didn't make any sense on its own became it was like chaos would become ordered within these mandala type drawings that I was doing. So I found it very fulfilling as a direction to pursue, but after some time I started realizing that it was. It was a lot more to it for me and, in terms of I wanted to level up, I I met my partner, who is the most incredible artist that I've met, and I think I really wanted to impress him And-. 
 
21:01 - Alexis (Host)
Well, nothing beats striving upwards. It'll put a cracker off anyone. It's fantastic, inspiring. 
 
21:10 - Elizabeth (Host)
And I had all these kind of beautiful ideas that were in my head and I was literally dreaming about them at nighttime and I finally managed to bring this image of what I wanted my art to look like, building on everything I'd already created, and I managed to get it out on paper, where it was far more kind of William Morris, mixed with art nouveau, mixed with folk art, and it was really botanical and interweaving vines, and I realised that I had done it and this was what I wanted to do and this was kind of the style I wanted to create, continue to create and to develop, uh, for however long. This made me so happy and as soon as I tapped into that and was creating that, uh, things just really started, yeah, taking off. For me, it's like you know so, when you tap into something that's asking to come through and those things happen, it's just like solid, oh yeah, it's like solidified, yeah, yeah. 
 
22:17
It's just, I was where I needed to be creatively yeah. 
 
22:22 - Alexis (Host)
Got an extra question for you. If someone wanted to do what you do or develop their creative process, have you got any advice on what resources or like so? Books or courses or? 
 
22:44 - Elizabeth (Host)
As a resource, and you probably had a few people say this to you. But there's that wonderful book, the Creative Act by Rick Rubin, which is just. It's such a staple for creatives because of how wonderful it is. It's really good at stripping back any of those kind of and reminds you to create for you you know, not for anyone else, not for a market to create for you, because that's where the actual magic is. And he's really good at talking about your creativity like a privilege that's bestowed upon you and if you do have that, you need to honor that and this is how you honor it. 
 
23:37
And he's got great tips if you're feeling blocked or if you're just keen to kind of find out where your creativity can go in terms of, like, exploring it right, getting right into the corners and expanding it and growing it further. So that's a really good resource as a book. You can listen to it as well. I think that if you can do little courses, it would be really great connecting with other creatives. Connecting with other creatives where you're doing something similar and you can nut stuff out together and find out that you're not at all alone in what you're trying to do is just so essential, because nobody is, but we think that we are. We all think the same thing and it's like it doesn't need. It doesn't need to be that hard. 
 
24:23 - Alexis (Host)
Uh, getting a mentor is a really great idea have you got any advice to someone how they would tackle trying to find a mentor? 
 
24:31 - Elizabeth (Host)
yeah, there's quite a few courses going around now. I've been part of a mural nomad business program, which has been really wonderful, and my partner's been part of the art Academy Pro I think it's called, actually with Tom Gerrard, yeah, and his wife, Claire Bradshaw. It's really wonderful, not just for muralists or creatives. So those are two really good ones to start with. Even jump on Facebook groups of people who are doing similar things and you'll just find there's a whole world of people out there who are struggling for the same things and it's just, yeah, such a good resource and I don't know you can start. 
 
25:16
Maybe this is a little, I don't know if it's a helpful thing to offer up, but having developing your own resilience, to be determined to put your own style out there, I just think is the most important kind of internal resource that you can have, because there's nobody else that can create what you create and we go through uni or well, some of us don't, but we, we grow up and we want to create and we want to and we look at all these people who are doing it successfully and it can be a real trap to think that in order to be successful ourselves, we need to emulate their style or the way that they've done it, or be like someone, but but what they're doing is they're just being themselves, and they're being uniquely themselves because only they can do it, and it's just the same for yourself, whether you've got the confidence to or not. It's it's. It's something that's really important to work on, because until you are committed to expressing yourself without trying to be anyone else, your own completely unique voice and perspective can't come through. 
 
26:41 - Alexis (Host)
Yeah, well said, bloody well said. Resonate with that. So much so so much. One last question if you could hear anyone come on this podcast and answer these questions, who would it be and why? 
 
26:59 - Elizabeth (Host)
I would absolutely say my partner, Gerard Rousseau. He's just such a dedicated artist. He's so incredibly talented and has been the biggest influence in my own art career. In addition to creating incredible charcoal sketches and the occasional sculptural work, he creates these illuminated copper works that you can see around us. But if I'm not allowed to say him, I will. I will say there's a Melbourne street artist, fine artist Mandoline. I don't know if you're familiar with her or her?
 
27:34 - Alexis (Host)
No, but I'm excited to go down that rabbit hole. Yeah, yeah. 
 
27:39 - Elizabeth (Host)
So she creates paper, cut fine art, sculptural works and paste ups and is just a really beautiful muralist with sprawling botanicals. Her kind of the crux of a lot of what she creates is about the concept of rewilding. So those kind of little weeds that kind of come into city life when we try and keep everything really sanitized and clean and neat and she just finds the magic in those little bits that kind of come in and I just I find something so pure about her practice and the way she's just really focused on on what she does and the way that she delivers it. Um, and she quite literally is making the world a more beautiful place, which is just really nice too. So she's really humble.
 
28:33 - Alexis (Host)
Amazing she's the package. Oh, I love it. Yeah, oh, my goodnesElizabeth Gleeson,on, what a joy this has been chatting with you. Thank you so much for your time and thank you so much for coming on through the creative d. 
 
thank you for having me. 28:48 - Elizabeth (Guest) 
Thanks for having me, I really appreciate it. e. 
 
28:Tt thanks for tuning in for another episode of Through the Creative Door. If you enjoy our episodes and find value in them, consider supporting us by making a donation. Just visit buymeacoffeecom, forward slash through the creative door or via the link in our Instagram bio where you can choose an amount and even write us a little message. Every little bit helps and we truly appreciate all of your support. But if you can't donate, no worries, you can still help us out by sharing our podcast with your friends and family and leaving a review on your favorite platform. Thanks so much for being part of our community and we'll catch you on the next episode. Bye. 

27 | Holiday Special with Alexis & Ruby

Join host Alexis and editor Ruby as they wrap up an incredible first season of Through the Creative Door with a festive finale! Reflecting on their favourite moments, the duo shares six standout highlights from the season, featuring inspiring guests with standout moments.
From overcoming self-doubt and advocating for your creative journey to the profound truths about preparation, persistence, and passion, this episode is a heartfelt celebration of the creative spirit. Plus, there’s a special gift for listeners: a sneak peek into their brand-new bite-size series launching in 2025!
Tune in for some laughs, inspiration, and a sprinkle of Christmas magic!
This episode was recorded on 18 November 2024 on the lands of the Wadjuk People and the Wurundjeri People. We hope that this episode inspires you as a creative person and as a human being.
Thanks for listening, catch you on the next episode.
Psst! We are always on the lookout for creative people to share their story and inspire others. Have you got someone in mind who would love to have a chat? Get in contact with us via Instagram @throughthecreativedoor
00:09 - Ruby (Co-host)
Merry Christmas Alexis
 
00:11 - Alexis (Co-host) 
Merry Christmas Ruby. 
 
00:13 - Ruby (Co-host)
We're here, we're ready.
 
00:15 - Alexis (Co-host) 
We have gone through a season
 
00:20 - Ruby (Co-host)
We have. I cannot believe it. I was looking at the Spotify list of all the episodes and I can't believe. At this time we're recording this as the 24th. The 24th episode has just come out, so that's pretty awesome. 
 
00:33 - Alexis (Co-host) 
I know I'm so proud of all of us, absolutely and everyone on the season. everyone's the tapestry of season one and I think what better way for us to round off season one, yeah, and do a Christmas episode? I wish I had bells on.
 
00:49 - Ruby (Co-host)
We decided that we would both choose three standout moments that we both really loved and I'm so glad that we both chose three completely different moments and it wasn't rehearsed at all, no, no it wasn't. No, not at all. I'm glad that we chose. Um, we've got, yeah, so six beautiful moments that we're going to share. Would you love to go first Alexis? 
 
01:20 - Alexis (Co-host) 
I( would love to go first. Actually, my first one is in your hometown, James from Brass Party. He was so eloquent and so gracious and so, oh, just you could hear his enthusiasm of all of the creative ventures that he does as a musician. But I think the thing that just really sort of just I had this. 
 
01:54
aha, yes, like you know you know when people are at a comedy or like poetry and instead of clapping, they like click their fingers because they like agree. I just felt that you know one of the like major things that he said was like you don't need to be one of the critics. Yeah, there are so many people that will criticize you. There's like, yeah, you don't need to be one of them. You need to be your own advocate and like, be there to advocate and push and uplift yourself, and that I was just like yes yeah.  
 
02:36 -Ruby (Co-host)
Absolutely yeah.That's so true, and I think, as creatives, it's so easy for us to be so hard on ourselves, because how else are we going to make our art better if we're not criticizing it? But then you also got to put a bit of a line there like am I being too hard on myself or is it the right amount? 
 
02:54 - Ruby (Co-host)
and I feel like a lot of creatives don't have that line 
 
03:01 - Alexis (Co-host) 
Yes, very true, but it's like we live in a very critical space. 99% of the time, right, we are applying for funding, we're applying for festivals or we're, you know, pitching show ideas, you know, or gallery ideas, or you know there's so much that you're like, you know, like one of our guests that we've had this year, you know, he talked about how he couldn't get to work on the projects that he wanted, and so he just made all the projects that he wanted. 
03:34 - Ruby (Co-host)
Yes, was that Blake? Yeah, yes, yeah, very inspiring. 
 
03:36 - Alexis (Co-host)
You just if it's not already there, then you just, you parve the way forward. 
 
03:42 - Ruby (Co-host)
What's that saying? If you build it, they will come, or if we build it, that's it. Yeah, absolutely, and that's the thing. You can't just wait around for things to happen in the creative world like things going well, fingers crossed. Things will come towards you, but most of the time you do have to be the leader. 
 
04:02 -Alexis (Co-host)
Oh, a hundred percent. And you also. You know people talk about it's like, oh, oh, they were a overnight success or whatever. It's like, no, no, they did all the hard work and it just meant that when the time came, that a particular opportunity came, they were already ready you know., 
 
04:30 -  Ruby (Co-host)
That’s actually a beautiful segue into one of my favourite moments, which was from episode 18 with Ray Leigh. I was so what she said was if you're always in the right place and you're always prepared, eventually it will be the right time. And I loved that for the reason that exactly what you said was you do what? If you're prepared and things come towards you, it'll be the right time. 
 
04:49 - Ruby (Co-host)
so and I am like a huge advocate for being prepared, like overly prepared
 
05:01 - Alexis (Co-Host)
You are my spirit at all, because organized and I love that, because I like being organized. I hate being underprepared.
 
05:09 - Ruby (Co-host)
I mean there have been moments where I'm like, oh, I'm not like 110% prepared, maybe I'm like 80% prepared, but I feel like most of the time that's more than a lot of people. But I loved, I loved, loved how Rayleigh said that, because it is so true. You have to work on your craft every single day and people don't know what's going on behind the scenes, they don't know how many hours have been put into this one tiny project. It could just be one show that you're doing once a year, but you're working for months and months, and months and months, and then people see the final products and they go oh, that was pretty good, that was quite nice. Yeah, it's like six months work, it's a lot, it's a lot. So I just really connected with that phrase that she said. I loved it 
 
05:53 - Alexis (Co-Host)
It’s so true and like you're saying, like you put so much time and energy and effort into these projects, yeah, these shows, tours, these exhibitions, yeah, like it's so much of yourself in it. 
 
06:10 - 
Yeah, actually, speaking of segues, there's probably a good segue into one of my favourite bits yes oh look at us flowing into yeah, um, I think I from memory I think it was episode 19 yeah, okay, so actually another person that was up in Queensland, same as Ray Leigh yeah, my, she talks about how, like you know, you want this final product to be such a like strong representation, you know, and you want it to be good, um, because it's your baby, like you've spent so much of your, like, it's your life, it's um, everything intertwined in that for such a period of time. I don't want to be misrepresented. It's like, yeah, you're so like, oh, yeah, I can't even find the words I just like she was. 
 
07:09
Just when she said it, I was just like, oh my God, it's so true, like it is your baby. Yeah, but once it goes out into the world, world, you don't sort of own it anymore. But up until that point it's like every single you know, mix and master. Every single colouring decision, every marketing You don't want to misrepresent it until, like, it goes out in the worlddecision, everything is just you know. 
 
07:32 - Ruby (Co-host)
yeah, definitely, and your art is essentially like a small part of your soul, yeah, isn't it? So I feel like that's a and it's a quite an intimate thing. I mean, I know, speaking as a musician, you would get this as well. To put out music into the world is a huge thing recording and then you've got to do all the graphic design. Then you've got to do all the marketing like there's just, there's so much that goes into it, like, no wonder people are so they hold on to the rights to their music because it is yours and people will try and take that away. Like you know not saying all labels are like this, because they're not. There's some fantastic labels and representation out there, but you've got to read that fine print. Got to read that fine print. Got to read the fine print. That's right, that's it, absolutely. Oh. 
 
08:27
My next favourite moment would be episode two. So right at the beginning, with our friend Josh Wells, who he's an amazing photographer. Oh, friend Josh Wells, so amazing photographer. Oh, josh Wells, yeah, he did our Through the Creative Door photos and I think he is such an amazing role model for all creatives, not just photographers, and his quote that really stuck with me was I've always thought of art as something that humans are compelled to do to make sense of our lives and world together, and that kind of takes the heat off you a bit, which I loved. I love this because there was once a moment in our lives where we picked up a guitar or we picked up that first paintbrush for the first time. We didn't know it, but like that moment would change our lives forever, completely change it. I can't even remember the first time I sat down at a piano, but that definitely changed my entire life. It's who we are as a person, like I identify as a musician, and to step away from that would be very, very foreign. Yeah, what's your last favourite moment, Alexis? 
 
09:47 - Alexis (Co-host)
It would have to be with Carl Knox, because he talked I mean he talked a lot. That episode was like one of our biggest episodes and I know that was one of the hardest ones for you to edit. 
 
10:02 - Ruby (Co-host)
It was really. It was a long, long one, but it was full of gold. 
 
10:07 - Alexis (Co-host)
I know, I know I just walked away from this chat with this person being like I'm just so enamored with your brain. Who are you? What is happening?
 
10:17 - Ruby (Co-host)
It's always Carl. Carl does that. 
 
10:23 -  Alexis (Co-host)
But it was one of those things where so much of what he was saying just really hit home. 
 
10:30
He talked about just that struggle with money and having to sort of step away from being an artist and feeling like you have your tail between your legs because you weren't quote-unquote successful at it and having to go back to a corporate job and you know. And obviously talks through how he manoeuvred through that with getting you know a mentor and figuring out his pricing and all that kind of stuff. But I think, off the back of the financial, which really resonated with me, one of the major things that he said which again really hit home was this notion of like I couldn't kill the artist inside. It's like the artist inside still had something to say and still needed to be an artist. And this sort of goes back to what you were saying about how you identify and you are a musician, like you are a creative. It's like innately you. And that is exactly yeah. As soon as he said that sort of phrasing, I was just like oh, yep, oh yeah, got me right in the kicker. 
 
11:33 - Ruby (Co-host)
Yeah for sure. I feel like a lot of creatives can connect with that, because it's so true. There have been so many times where I don't want to do music anymore because I couldn't do this. I remember when I was 15 and I tried to quit music because I couldn't go to a friend's birthday party because I had a show or I had a rehearsal or something, and I said, mum, that's it, I'm quitting music. And I think I lasted about 24 hours and I wrote a song about it. So there is, it's just like, it's just, it's just in us, isn't it? Yeah, it's very hard to shake that, I think. 
 
12:12 - Ruby (Co-host)
But I don't want to shake it. 
 
12:14 - Alexis (Co-host)
We don't want to shake it unless we're shaking it like a Polaroid picture. 
 
12:22 - Ruby (Co-host)
You know you're not meant to shake Polaroids, you're meant to put them down. 
 
12:24 - Alexis (Co-host)
No, you're meant to put them down. Yes, exactly, neat and dark. 
 
12:28 - Ruby (Co-host)
There we go. My last favourite moment of season one through the creative door was with the amazing Mark Turner in episode 10. Yeah, I really loved the phrase when he said take the pressure off yourself and it'll work out, and I loved. I loved that because, like we've said in this chat, it is so easy to make ourselves our own worst critic. That's not good enough. That wasn't on time. I played that like terribly and all of that negative energy. Then we eventually project that out. We don't want to do that. 
 
13:17
And I remember Mark said as well he's like you see those people out there in the creative industry and they're just in this natural flow state and you're like why are things happening for them? Why are they just consistently going up and up and up? It's because I wouldn't say that they're not judging themselves. They probably are. You never know what's going on behind closed doors. But I think they've probably found that line of supporting themselves but also being, you know, their own critic. But but being nice to themselves. And I personally have learned that very in a very, very hard way. I used to be so hard on myself and I continuously can be, but I think I've learned to pull it back to like a reality. Is this actually serving me, or am I just being silly? Am I just looking for attention? 
 
14:06 - Alexis (Co-host)
Yeah, but I also think that in this business there is a culture of you know you should be saying yes to everything. 
 
14:14 - Ruby (Co-host)
Oh, absolutely, because it's like this opportunity will never come up again. I should be doing this, should be doing that. If it doesn't feel right, it doesn't feel right and that's okay. But I just really, I really loved what Mark said about that. Just take the pressure off and it'll work out, and you end up getting yourself into this flow state and eventually things will just naturally come in like they're meant to. 
 
14:39 - Alexis (Co-host)
And I think you end up then gravitating to other creatives that are in that flow state. 
 
14:44 - Ruby (Co-host)
In that flow state, absolutely, I also loved the fact that when you're in that flow state, like you said, that you attract these people. That you're in that flow state, like you said, that you attract these people that are in that same flow state, but sometimes they're actually on that next level of their business or the next level of the career or whatever, and then eventually you will get yourself up, like it's as a musician it's. I heard that saying it's always good to play with people that are better than you, because then you become better, it pushes you to be better. Yeah. 
 
15:14 - - Alexis (Co-host)
They always say that you don't want to be the smartest person in the room. Exactly, always want to be the smartest person. Rubs off on you, yeah, good one. 
 
15:24 - Ruby (Co-host)
I really love that. That's a good one. Yeah, and then our shared favourite moment together was episode 14 with Anna Davis. 
 
15:35 -  Alexis (Co-host)
I just adored we both adored the fact that she just was so sure, so sure from the get-go. She didn't have a backup plan. And that was what a beautiful thing. She was like, nope, didn't have a backup plan. Everyone was like what are you going to do after school if you're not going to be a photographer should have a backup, like she was like nope, I'm going to be a photographer yeah,
 
15:59 - Ruby (Co-host)
That’st absolutely.  And you know what? I'm sure that there have been moments in her life where she's thought I might do that or I might do that, but the next day she'll wake up and go no, I'm a photographer, you know. Yeah, she was so sure and I love the fact that she was saying that confidently to other people when those people asked, well, what's your backup plan? And it wasn't. Oh, I'm not too sure, I think I might. No, she was like I'm a photographer, that's who I am. And I think once you get that in your mind sort of like who you are as a creative and what you do and what you offer and what you put out into the world things just you just get creative and make it happen. Like that's what my mum would always say. You've just got to get creative and think outside the box oh, I like. I like that one, because I have had an array of jobs. 
 
I've worked at Grilled, I've worked admin and at Backpackers so many different things and I think it's good to try different things. But if you keep coming back to the same career, it doesn't necessarily have to be music. I'm just relating it to me. I've just found I've always gravitated back towards the arts, always gravitated back towards music, and you just get creative and make it work 100% yeah, I just can't. 
 
17:20 -Alexis (Co-host)
100% yeah, I just can't. I'm a lesser person without it in my life, and I'm sure you're the same oh, I don't know. 
 
17:25 - Ruby (Co-host)
I mean, I could not think of my life without music, but mainly because music has helped me meet so many amazing people like yourself and like Mark. 
 
17:39
You know so many creative people and I don't actually think that I would have had the confidence to be a full time musician without the community that we have around us, because that's also another thing. Some people don't have the support of their families. My mum and my family were so supportive of me in doing my creative pursuits, but I do have friends who their parents weren't supportive and that can be really hard. So having this community around us is so important, yeah. 
 
18:12 - Alexis (Co-host)
I thoroughly enjoy the uplift that our community gives us. Absolutely. I wouldn't be doing half the stuff I get up to, if it wasn't for someone being like okay, yeah, you've got an idea. How are you going to make it happen? That's it. 
 
18:25 - Ruby (Co-host)
That's where you've got to get creative and think outside the box. 
 
18:31 - Ruby (Co-host)
That's right your mum. 
 
18:33 - Ruby (Co-host)
Well, that is a wrap of season one through the creative door. I'm so looking forward to jumping into next season. We've got some awesome people coming up, awesome creatives left, right and centre, and I think it's going to be an awesome 2025. 
 
18:50 - Alexis (Co-host)
I'm so excited. I love this journey with you. Rubes Me too. 
 
18:54 - Ruby (Co-host)
It's been lovely. I've thoroughly enjoyed myself for the whole year. Every time it pops up it's like ding, ding, ding, please edit through the creative door. Oh, we've got today. What are we doing? What are we talking about. No, I love it. It's so good. Thank you so much for bringing me onto the team, the TTCD team. 
 
19:17 -  Alexis (Co-host)
So we have some very exciting news that's coming up in 2025, don't we Rubes? Yes, we do. Another team member coming into the fold of Through The Creative Door, and the man of the hour is Sam Timmerman, who is going to be joining me on a new segment called B-Side 
 
19:43 - Ruby (Co-host) 
Yes, that's right and B-Side are little, bite-sized episodes, with Alexis and Sam talking about their favourite vinyl records. Vinyl's for you was a huge part of your childhood. With your dad growing up, you talked about the covers, you talked about the music, you talked about the concept of everything. That's something that you hold really dear. And now you get to do it with Sam. 
19:51 - Alexis (Co-host)
I know my dear, you continue that legacy along yeah. It is beautiful and, yeah, it's just such a joy to share love of art, covers, music and just how it resonates and sparks something when you listen to these tracks on these vinyls and vinyls. Just such a beautiful warmth, so good. 
 
20:27 - Ruby (Co-host)
That's a wrap.  It's been such a wonderful year. Thank you for bringing me on to the team, alexis. I really appreciate it had a lovely time and I'm really looking forward to 2025 and seeing what creatives we get on, because I love it.
20:38 - Alexis (Co-host)
oh my goodness, Rubes, I love that you have been ready and willing to receive this journey with me and yeah, it's just such a joy love your face, oh love yours. 
 
20:58 - Ruby (Co-host)
 oh love yours. Merry christmas, merry christmas and happy new year. Happy and safe new year. Look after yourselves and keep creating through the festive season. 

26 | Success Is In The Moment Of Creating with G

In this episode, Alexis welcomes G, also known as Lowdown G: an actor, writer, musician, director, and creator of the comedy podcast The Lowdown. G opens up about their creative journey, from lucid dreaming scenes to managing a theatre, and how music, plants, and goldfish ground their boundless imagination.
Navigating challenges like mental health and finding joy in imperfection, G shares valuable lessons, including their mantra: “Fail your way to success.”
G has requested anonymity, so there are no socials to share, however, if you’d like to hear more from this talented human, check out “The Lowdown”, anywhere you get your podcasts. 
 
This episode was recorded on 11 October 2024 on the lands of the Woiworung Peoples. We hope that this episode inspires you as a creative person and as a human being.
Thanks for listening, catch you on the next episode.
Psst! We are always on the lookout for creative people to share their story and inspire others. Have you got someone in mind who would love to have a chat? Get in contact with us via Instagram @throughthecreativedoor
…
Creative resources from G:
 
BOOKS:
Let’s get social:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/throughthecreativedoor/ 
TikTock: https://www.tiktok.com/@ttcdpodcast
 
CREDITS
Created and Hosted by Alexis Naylor
Music by Alexis Naylor & Ruby Miguel
Edited and Produced by Ruby Miguel
—--------------------
00:09 - Alexis (Host)
Hello, my name is Alexis Naylor and I am your host here at Through the Creative Door. On behalf of myself and my guests, I would like to acknowledge the traditional owners and custodians on which this podcast is recorded and produced. Owners and custodians on which this podcast is recorded and produced. May we pay our respects to all First Nations people and acknowledge Elders, past and present. On this podcast, I'll be chatting to an array of creative guests, getting a glimpse into their worlds and having some honest and inspiring conversations along the way. I'm delighted to welcome you to Through the Creative Door. Well, hello, G. How are you? 
 
00:54 - G (Guest)
I'm pretty good. 
 
00:55 - Alexis (Host)
I'm so excited to have you here, G. You have touched on so many parts of your craft Voice, actor, performer, musician. You've owned a theatre, you've been a theatre manager, you've I don't know playwright you did so much stuff with plays.
 
01:16 - G (Guest)
 Yeah, yeah, yeah, all that kind of stuff, I'm still a writer, I'm still writing
 
01:21 - Alexis (Host) 
But you are host and creator of this new, what I call it satire comedy podcast. 
 
01:33 - G (Guest)
We're still working it out. Yeah, it's dark satire. Like when I first put it online I said that it was comedy because it didn't really give me enough options. Said that it was comedy because it didn't really give me enough options. You know, and then I don't know. It's just developing. There's a narrative that seems to be developing. It's pretty perverse. 
 
01:55 - Alexis (Host)
I love this. Well, it's called the Lowdown Podcast for those who want to check it out. First question, what does a creative space mean to you and why?
 
02:09 - G (Guest)
It's meant all sorts of things over the years. Look, it is just. It's just a space where my head can run free. So I used to be super tidy. I used to have this tidy space. I had this chair I bought called the pod, that I would sit in and write in, and that was my thing. I sat in the same spot every time and I would get up and walk around and do all sorts of stuff, but that was my space where my mind could run free. Then I had a theatre. 
 
02:42
I love a black space, so I used to love working just in the black, because then your mind can really project on it and I see things very visually. Whatever's in my head, I can literally see it, control it, manipulate it. And if I'm in dark space, like even at the house I live in at the moment I just recently took it down, but I just had a little black thing in the garage so I could just sit in perfect darkness with just the light of my laptop and let my mind go wild. And sitting in that space, everything was so visual so I could examine every element of whatever world I was going into and creating and even when I stepped out of there I'd step out because it had been so intense the film would still be playing in front of my eyes. It was like a reality laid over another reality. 
 
03:42
I can also lucid dream and control my dreams if I choose to. I've been able to do that since I was pretty young. So I would you know, I, when I was writing full-time and I used to write for 20 hours of day and then, yeah, sleep for 10 hours. I sort of lived on a 36 hour clock at one stage when I was writing full-time and I was I getting, but I would wake up in the morning, I would focus in on whatever scene I was writing that day and then I'd go back to sleep and I'd dream it and when I got up, really all I had to do was write it down.
04:22 - Alexis (Host) 
Considering how many things that you've done over the years and obviously your creative journey has not ended, so it's a bit of a hard one to ask, but what is one project or one body of work that you're the most proud of creating, and how did that come about? 
 
04:40 - G (Guest)
I remember when my first major play won some awards and there was a reading at the Arts Centre and I was just curled up in my chair for so long but about halfway through the show I actually managed to listen to the audience and they were laughing their asses off and that was a special moment. But then the theatre. I mean that was the dumbest thing that we could do. We just wasted all our time and money. But the amount of artists that we supported through doing that. There were people doing giant origami, there were people playing music this is the theatre that was feet theatre yes that. 
 
05:23
I did with my partner, Amanda Folson, but also my last band, Sock. That was probably the most liberating thing. We were just a comedy rock duo, except we played sort of a five-piece band. We'd play half a drum kit each. I played bass and guitar and harmonica, played bass and guitar and harmonica, and Ben, my counterpart, played keyboard and Moog and Korg and drums and tambourines and shakers and all sorts of things at the same time. So that was pretty joyful. But then my best work is now joyful. But then my best work is now, um, and it's wild and it's crazy and it's bits and pieces and it's full of mistakes and it's clumsy, um, but through it I'm managing to get out a whole bunch of things that I've always wanted to get out. 
 
06:23 - Alexis (Host)
This is such a great segue into, I think, the next question that I was going to ask, which is what's something that's challenged your creativity and and how did you manage, or how are you managing with that? 
 
06:37 - G (Guest)
I struggled with depression and anxiety for quite a while there and I guess it was when my career started to decline, or at least after my initial successes, which were quite big. You know, I got to. I had a play on at the Malthouse Theatre and I got to play the Sydney Opera House as an actor and I was meeting with all sorts of producers and things as a writer and different studios over, and that I didn't feel comfortable with because I didn't feel like a writer. I never intended to be a writer, although that's what I think I always was from the beginning but when I had my first, even when I was meeting with agents out of drama school, they were like so you're a writer? And I was like no, no, no, I'm just an actor. I just wrote a bunch of stuff because I couldn't find anything that was right. 
 
07:29
And they were like no, no, you're a writer. And so my agent picked me up and managed my writing as well, which was amazing. But then to the mental health thing I was researching. I didn't know whether it was going to be a play or I thought it was going to be a film, and I tried all these different formats and I'm writing as a novel now. As a novel now. But I was hanging out with a bunch of criminals, murderers, bank robbers, all sorts of stuff and I got myself in some pretty wacky situations. But in a terrible situation one day where my life was threatened and I, yeah. Then I got worse. I didn't. Finally, I was diagnosed with PTSD and that took me a long time, a long long time, to deal with. 
 
08:25 - Alexis (Host)
Yeah, is there an object or a thing that you can't live without when you're creating? 
 
08:34 - G (Guest)
My guitars. Really, I always have a guitar. It's my security blanket, it's my therapy, it's my meditation. If I'm stuck with anything, if I'm having any trouble, I just pick up the guitar. I've been playing long enough now that I don't look at my hands, I don't decide what I'm going to do. Most times I just let it play and I guess the emotions or something play the music and and then sometimes the words come out and the words play the music. 
 
09:12 - Alexis (Host)
Do you feel like, as a writer, you know, when you need some something to spark, something like you'll go and play guitar? 
 
09:22 - G (Guest)
Yeah, I mean, music's what I go back to and plants. I'm a a big gardener, and have been since I was a tiny kid, and I, yeah, I love the plants. I also have a goldfish pond with some goldfish in there, and they chill me out as well, yeah, but to me these days it's just more about relaxation and just finding the centre in yourself, and that's the creative space actually that I should have mentioned, which is the calm centre of myself, where my mind's clear and there's nothing fogging me up and then I can do. 
 
09:59 - Alexis (Host)
Well said, well said. If you could give one piece of advice, one nugget of gold to another creative, what would it be, and why? 
 
10:11 - G (Guest)
It's pretty simple and it's actually been said in your podcast it's just stay at it if you want to do it and fail your way to success. I mean, you fail so many times with everything you do. You can paint so many pictures and maybe only one of them comes out. You can write so many things, but then things come out of that. I had a play, I didn't even have a play. 
 
10:41
I was going through my laptop with my partner one day and we were just reading bits and pieces, all this unfinished shit. You know, some of it was super long and there was this one little scene just these two guys looking at a house that they were going to rob, two dumb guys who never grew up, and just hang out with each other and get pissed and play pool my partner's like that's great, that's a great scene. I'd love to see what happens there and I'd forgotten about it. I didn't about it, I didn't recognise it and I was in love and it was new love and now I have two kids from that love. But then I started writing this play and this beautiful love story came out of this simple, dumb piece of writing and we actually performed the Piano Thief a bunch of times and I would like to turn it into a film at some stage.
 
11:57
I'd have to expand it, but the characters are so beautiful and it's just from trying and trying and and putting stuff away as well, like sometimes you think you've got something that you really want to do and you, every time you go out at you, just make a big mess and it destroys you and you know you could just keep going at it until you fall to pieces. But sometimes just putting it away, going all right, I failed there, or maybe I didn't, whatever and then coming back to it and then, and then maybe you find something. Then you know, because we we change as well, like so sometimes there's something you want to do but you can't quite see it. You know you can't quite put a frame on it, you can't quite find the notes, or you can't find the voice, you can't find the key, you can't find the right instrument, and then sometimes it comes back when you least expect it, and there it is. 
 
13:06
And you know, just doing that, like if you I mean not everyone's gonna be successful, but success isn't. You know, there's success and there's success. Success is in the moment of creating think, because a lot of it can be pretty shitty. Like I don't want to be recognised, I'm happy to just do it. I'd like to be my ideas to be recognised. 
 
13:36 - Alexis (Host)
I've said this all along I never, never, wanted fame, never. I mean, I'm not famous, but, yeah, my desire was never to be famous. My desire was for my colleagues and for my peers and people to recognise their work and for that to get accolades. Not yeah, yeah. 
 
13:56 - G (Guest)
I wouldn't mind my work to be famous. Yes, that's what I mean, Because I'd like it to have an audience Like yeah, there are times that I really do have something to say that I think is important and I would like people to get in contact with that. 
 
14:12 - Alexis (Host)
No matter what body of work that you put out, you have all the intention under the sun of how you want that to be perceived, but the reality is, once that body of works out there it that that baby's no longer ours like we can't control what happens with it, and so do you stop yourself from putting that body of work out? Well, no, but it is definitely at the mercy of society. Yeah, to do what it will yeah, yeah, and I like. 
 
14:43 - G (Guest)
I think people are generally smart enough to deal with that. I do worry about the way the internet works, because it is so polarizing and it is based on triggering us. I mean, the whole model is money for your fear you know, we will play on your fear so that we can build our bank accounts, and that's a dangerous model and that needs to be examined, or at least the public need to become more aware of it and more clever about how they use it. 
 
15:22 - Alexis (Host)
Well said, well said. Last but not least, one more question if you could pick another guest, another creative, to come on this podcast and answer these questions, who would it be and why? 
 
15:37 - G (Guest)
There's a friend of mine who is a Melbourne writer, actress Mingzhu Hai, She'd be great to interview. She's a creator. She's done all sorts of crazy stuff over the years. She's in big films and stuff like that, and then she's also just been making art for years in all sorts of things. Nathan Curnow's a playwright who's Victorian at least he's in the rap, I think. Also, well, my cousin and her partner, Jack and Tegan fantastic musicians. I just went to a concert, to an album launch of Vaz the other day for a band called Gold Tooth, Gold Tooth, Gold Tooth and I with a T-U and the what are they called? But they've just released their record so you can check that on Spotify. They're awesome, but they just went to Italy for a year. 
 
16:42 - Alexis (Host)
Oh no, I need to go to Europe to interview them. 
 
16:46 - G (Guest)
Yeah, yeah, but they'll be back. They'll be back, you know, and you'll still be doing a podcast. 
 
16:49 - Alexis (Host)
Thank you so much for being on Through the Creative Door. This has been such a blast. ]
Thanks for tuning in for another episode of Through the Creative Door. If you enjoy our episodes and find value in them, consider supporting us by making a donation. Just visit buymeacoffeecom/through the creative door or via the link in our Instagram bio where you can choose an amount and even write us a little message. Every little bit helps and we truly appreciate all of your support. But if you can't donate, no worries, you can still help us out by sharing our podcast with your friends and family and leaving a review on your favourite platform. Thanks so much for being part of our community and we'll catch you on the next episode. Bye. 

25 | Creating Magic Through Connection with Lima Brightlove

Step into the vibrant world of immersive art and music with Lima Brightlove, a multi-genre DJ and installation artist transforming Perth's creative landscape. In this episode of Through the Creative Door, Alexis dives into Lima’s fascinating journey—from crafting large-scale interactive art pieces with reclaimed materials to collaborating on the groundbreaking Strange Festival. Discover how Lima’s innovative installations breathe new life into unexpected locations, creating communities where people can connect, linger, and explore. 
 
If you’d like to see more, you can follow Lima on instagram; @ limabrightlove
 
This episode was recorded on 28 August 2024 on the lands of the Wajuk Peoples. We hope that this episode inspires you as a creative person and as a human being.
Thanks for listening, catch you on the next episode.
Psst! We are always on the lookout for creative people to share their story and inspire others. Have you got someone in mind who would love to have a chat? Get in contact with us via Instagram @throughthecreativedoor
 
Let’s get social:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/throughthecreativedoor/ 
TikToc: https://www.tiktok.com/@ttcdpodcast
 
CREDITS
Created and Hosted by Alexis Naylor
Music by Alexis Naylor & Ruby Miguel
Edited and Produced by Ruby Miguel
 
—----------------------
 
00:09 - Alexis (Host)
Hello, my name is Alexis Naylor and I am your host here at Through the Creative Door. On behalf of myself and my guests, I would like to acknowledge the traditional owners and custodians on which this podcast is recorded and produced. Owners and custodians on which this podcast is recorded and produced. May we pay our respects to all First Nations people and acknowledge Elders, past and present. On this podcast, I'll be chatting to an array of creative guests, getting a glimpse into their worlds and having some honest and inspiring conversations along the way. I'm delighted to welcome you to Through the Creative Door. 
 
Hello, Lima, how are you going? 
 
00:52 - Lima (Guest) 
Yeah, brilliant, brilliant, brilliant, 
 
00:54 - Alexis (Host) 
oh my goodness. Thank you so much for coming to Through the Creative Door. We're actually coming through another creative door in this beautiful space, but, yes, I'm so thrilled to be chatting with you. You are such a talented bear so that, for those that are listening, you are a multi-genre DJ and you play all around Perth and very loved, very loved. But also you are an immersive installation artist, which I'm very intrigued to delve into, because I feel like you will be the best person to describe what that encompasses, because I feel like that's quite massive, like that could be a lot of things, yep. 
 
01:36 - Alexis (Host)
Just when I was chatting to you and organising this interview, I was so chuffed to hear that you were involved in the Strange Festival which I was so lucky enough to just fall upon when I was living in Perth, which is this. For those that don't know, how about you describe what that festival is? 
 
01:56 - Lima (Guest)
Sure, no dramas. So hi everyone. My name's Lima, I'm an immersive installation artist, and what that means is I create art that's interactive. It means most of it tends to be on the larger scale and all of it comes out of ideas, out of my head, and I only work with reclaimed and repurposed materials as well. 
 
02:24 - Alexis (Host)
That resonates with me so much I love that. 
 
02:29 - Lima (Guest)
So three years ago, Strange Festival. The festival directors wanted to bring more people into the CBD in the middle of winter, at a time when nobody, especially in hot, sunny Perth, wants to go out. The first year I actually worked on the doors of Strange Festival. I was one of their ushers and pedestrian traffic wranglers and I loved it so much that the following year I put together a proposal and did an artist submission. So never one to do things by halves. I collaborated with two other artists. We had an enormous space, close to maybe a hundred square meters or so, that we turned into an experimental music ambient lounge, chill space. I built four secret rooms. There were just so many hidden little puzzles and things to see and do and find.
03:39 - Alexis (Host)
 For those listening, the beautiful thing was that this festival happened with all of the sort of shop fronts and warehouse spaces and all of these spaces that were vacant in the city and they were just like turned into these magic wonderlands as this festival. It is just like I said, I stumbled upon it and I was just like taken into another world, being like I've just like walked off you know a main street in the CBD of Perth and suddenly I'm in this like mystical. What is happening? Yeah, fantastic. 
 
04:11 - Lima (Guest)
So each artist gets allocated a yeah, like an empty shop in the CBD. Strange works very, very hard with other stakeholders in the CBD to have access to these empty spaces and fill them full of art for 10 days. You know we're so lucky to have that kind of support, you know, from commercial, from the commercial sector. We, I guess, you know, in some ways we wanted to, we wanted it to, we wanted the retail sector to feel inspired and invigorated as well. There are some very dead spaces in the city which I think don't add to your civic pride or anything like that. So, yeah, I was so, so excited when I was chosen as one of the first artists last year to do something like that. Yeah, it was really exciting. And then this year I thought to myself well, if I can do it with, you know, like a team of people, maybe I can do this on my own as well. And, you know, maybe I could produce all the art that's in. You know that I want to exhibit inside it. Yeah, and I did. It's amazing. 
 
05:29
Yeah, everyone loves the treasure map. I call it. You get, you get given. You know, you get given a little. You know a five piece of paper that has all the empty location, all the you know locations, the venues, mapped down on it. It's your job to uncover, find them all. Yeah, it's so cool. 
 
05:48 - Alexis (Host)
I love that element of it. It's like the adult treasure hunt.
 
05:55 - Lima (Guest)
 It's so great we call it the art trail. Everyone knows what an art trail is. This is an art trail that has a bit of an element of mystery about it. You never know who's doing what part of the trail at what time, so you do run into the same people sometimes. And, yeah, it's, it's a. It's a lot of fun, it's a lot of fun. They expanded last year, and this year as well, into live music, so they created a live music venue out of the basement of the Carillion, which used to be the food court, so they were putting on bands in an abandoned food court, and they also had a pop-up cinema as well, which, yeah, had some incredible food offerings that were only for strange. So it was popcorn seasoning, strange popcorn, and, yeah, it all it was. It was such an amazing way to, yeah, I guess, show people what local people can do 100% locals, like all people from Perth. 
 
06:53 - Alexis (Host)
Yeah, amazing. This might be a hard question to ask because, obviously, being a DJ and then also installing art in the way that you do. But what does a creative space mean to you and why?
 
07:12 - Lima (Guest)
I love this question. I love this question. Let's go back to you know, talking about working with reclaimed and repurposed materials. So I love working in unusual locations that have, I guess, certain boundaries or parameters around them If you're working in a space. So I'll give you an example the empty shop front that I was allocated this year for Strange had seven power points in the wrong room in the wrong room. So our first challenge was to run power from one space into another space through a gap between the wall and the window which was about maybe four and a half centimetres wide. 
 
07:59
So when we go into some of these pre-loved, you know, spaces, part of our creativity is the problem-solving. You know that goes into, okay, the idea that I have in my head. Now the execution. You know I have to, I have to find a way through this, through this. Yeah, even things like you know you never know what ceiling height you're going to get. You never know. 
 
08:26
You know I had grand plans to do a lot of stuff hanging from the ceiling, but a lot of the ceiling panels that I was working with were so fragile and, you know, not capable of taking the weight that I wanted, so we brought in some trussing instead, which had winch winches on it. So we wound up the trussing, you know, hung my three meter western ground parrot off it. I built a three meter bird for this out of a cafe blind, which is one of those big plastic things that stops the rain from coming in on a veranda, and a whole bunch of soft plastics, yeah. So in the style of faux stained glass, yeah, we winched up this enormous bird, yeah, and dressed it and put heaps and heaps of. I guess we built these trees out of fallen branches and things and, yeah, we brought all the outside to the inside. 
 
09:25 - Alexis (Host)
Yeah, so creating space to you is forever changing, depending on what the project is. 
 
09:32 - Lima (Guest)
Absolutely. I guess one of the things that I like to do in my installations is I really like to have an entry and an exit point. A lot of gallery spaces are just kind of like, you know, they throw you into this big empty room, you know, and you do wander around on your own and, you know, choose where you want to go, but people being people, they kind of just all migrate to the same thing. What I like. It's almost like I'm building a mini art trail inside an art trail, like people come into one of my venues and they do follow a bit of a path, but every zone that they're walking through, every artwork that they stop at, has opportunities to stay and opportunities to interact. 
 
10:16
Yeah, and we have people that sometimes get to the end and go oh, I'm not ready to leave yet. They turn around and they go back in. Yeah, and I get a lot of people who just stay, and that is exactly what I want to do. You know my whole ethos around putting creativity into an empty space. You know I want it to be a place where people feel like they can stay, feel like they belong, feel like they have a place where, you know, they have that sense of belonging and yeah, and they're in part of a mini community in there. 
 
10:50 - Alexis (Host)
Oh, I love that. What a beautiful answer. Oh, I adore it. What is something that you're proud of creating and how did it come about? 
 
11:05 - Lima (Guest)
I recently worked on a NAIDOC week project with a venue called the Rechabite in Northbridge in the city. Here in Perth we're on I forgot to say as well, look, we're on Wadjuk Noongar country here. I just want to recognize that, pay our respects to the elders past, present and emerging. It was really special being invited to dress three venues inside one building for NAIDOC week with full blessings from the First Nations folks that we were working with, the thing that I'm super proud of directing the theme for our event. So there was in the main hall there was a large party going on with performances 100% First Nations, of course. On the rooftop we had DJs and market stalls and sensory activities going on, and then in the main bar area there was a media wall set up with blue carpet not red carpet, blue carpet, and the blue carpet was a deliberate move. The theme of this whole event was we Are the River Inunga, ngaalak, nidja, milyar, and so the whole thing was river themed Swan River, durbal, yarragan. Very, very important resting place for the Woggle Rainbow Serpent, as it's called in the culture, and for the main entrance of Rechab ite, which is, if you imagine, like a kind of an oldie grand heritage staircase. You know that kind of leads you up and then has two little staircases peeling off. At the top we built a river along the balustrading using all you know bits of blue shade cloth and pool coverings and and then I ran blue LED lights all the way through it. That chased each other and, you know, created flow up the staircase. We had two mannequins at the front. One was wrapped in indigenous flags, again with full blessings, and the other one was wrapped in Torres Strait Islander colours, and we did the whole thing with as much native greenery as we could get our hands on. 
 
13:27
I'm really proud of my team for running with these creative ideas and the vision that I had for this Part of it always feels a bit, I feel, very humbled by the amount of creativity my installers and my volunteers bring to the team as well, bring to the art. So, on the one hand, you know I am definitely in there up to my elbows and on my hands and knees with them. On the other hand, I can also walk away from that to direct something else or to, you know, talk to a different team that's looking after rooftop bunting, for example, bunting being the fabric flags, and I know that the team that I've left behind doing plastics is absolutely going to keep going ahead with the right visio. So, um, yeah, that's I'm really, really proud of. We also only had 13 days to pull off nadoc weeks. So, yeah, right, we were under the pump. Yeah, we were really under the pump to come up with the concept, the design, the execution, yeah, and then, yeah, sort it all out.
 
14:29 - Alexis (Host)
Part of the beauty and we spoke off mic about this is about that sort of in the middle of a project, where you know sometimes you're like, oh my goodness, can we get this across the line? And sometimes it's the time pressures or the ideas or, yeah, like you said, the circumstance, the locations, but there's something really beautiful about the being able to rally together and just still deliver, with all of that in the middle. 
 
15:07 - Lima (Guest)
Yeah, yeah, definitely. And, look, I want, I need to be able to trust my team. I also need them to be able to trust me as well. You know, because there are times when we have to make really crunchy decisions on something that might have been set in stone and I might have to, you know, cut it in half, for example, and say, look, I said we were going to do a, b and C, but actually we've only got time to do a and B. We're going to have to leave out C. You know, and you're going to have to trust me on this, that it's still going to be just as good. Yeah, but doing that sort of stuff, you know, like, yeah, just, I guess you can't do it without a team. You really can't, you really can't. 
 
15:46 - Alexis (Host)
So, yeah, this is probably a good segue, maybe into what do you think has challenged your creativity and what do you think the major lesson was?
 
16:01 - Lima (Guest)
 Good question, good question. As an installation artist like the, the challenges of working with reclaimed and repurposed materials. One of the challenges is that you can't just go out to the shop and buy another one. If I found something on the side of the road, I can't go back to that same spot. To me, that's a challenge that's worth doing because it extends you in ways that you wouldn't normally. Sometimes it's great when you have materials that you know are going to keep coming in Cardboard, for example, you know we go to. You can go to the back of any good guy's shop and help yourself to as much cardboard as you like. But yeah, when it's something that you know is precious, that you know is rare, or that you know is really integral to your artwork, is really integral to delivering your concept, but there's only 30 centimetres of it available, you know the pressure's on. You've got to rise to that challenge. Yeah, yeah, there is no second chance with that. 
 
17:15 - Alexis (Host)
Do you think there's also some kind of like beauty in that, though, that you only have one crack? 
 
17:21 - Lima (Guest)
Yes, absolutely, absolutely. You know, I never thought that I'd be drawing parallels with this style of visual arts and music, which is what my background is. You know, I've been a musician since I was five. The live element of that and having only one crack at it, you know, is often what drives us as musicians. But in visual arts, what I found was that, working with reclaimed materials, I found that same drive, I found that same spark, you know, wanting to do my absolute best, you know, to really honour this material that I only have a small piece of, or 30 centimetres of, or that I know will be you know, a really important part of this. 
 
18:07 - Alexis (Host)
Yeah, I love that. And it’s so true. All you can do is be prepared as you possibly can be and it will fall where it may. Whether that's art or music, yeah. Now if you could give one piece of advice, one nugget of gold, to another creative or another human being, what would it be? 
 
18:36 - Lima (Guest)
I think it would be, find your people. Surround yourself with the people who do egg you on, who make you feel like you want to be bigger and better than what you've just done. Who make you feel like you're capable of more. Some years ago I'd been living in Perth for a very long time and I was going down a path with music that I thought I wanted you know, festivals, heading into clubs, that sort of thing but I wasn't happy and I wasn't getting the job satisfaction from it. And at the time I thought it was because I was angry at Perth, I was angry at where I was for not being able to deliver that to me. So I uprooted myself and I moved, you know, over east and I'm gonna, you know, do this differently and it's gonna be a whole new experience, and it was a whole new experience. 
 
19:43
But during COVID I was forced to move back to Perth, as a lot of people were, and I had the opportunity to start again and to restart my music career and what I found was that when I reached out in different ways to different people who aligned more with my values rather than what I thought was my career trajectory. Man, amazing things started to happen. That's how I ended up in places like this, Like in. We're sitting here in, you know, a beautiful bar that is queer friendly, that is welcoming and accepting, arts friendly and I wasn't connecting with those parts of myself that felt fired up about that, and so I wasn't reaching out to those people. Now I know I know how to recognise that little, that little burn inside me that goes oh, I love this and I want to work with you and, yeah, I want to support your gigs or your exhibitions, or you know your ideas as well um, and let's find ways to do that yes, 
 
21:07 - Alexis (Host)
Oh, my goodness, I'm so glad that you came back to Perth and that you found your people,yay! I’m curious, would you have any advice if anyone wanted to do what you do in any way, shape or form? Would you have any suggestions of resources or materials that one could read, watch, attend? 
 
21:30 - Lima (Guest)
Yes, there's courses you can do. They're quite heavily marketed online. They're aimed at curators, installation artists, but the things that I found the most helpful wasn't necessarily reading about what other people did or looking at it on Instagram. It was going and being immersed in other people's immersive art and it was being on that, receiving end of the immersion and then coming out of it going. How did I feel about that? And if I was to do something that evoked a similar depth or frequency of feeling in someone else, how would I go about that and what would I want to do? The examples that come to my head are and they're pretty famous examples around the world. 
 
22:23
Teamlab do some incredible work in the digital space and as well as the 3D immersive space as well. They work a lot with projections as well, and the other one that I find really intriguing is Meow Wolf. So Meow Wolf build worlds within worlds within worlds, so you can walk into one of their, I guess, fake supermarkets and there will be a refrigerator that actually turns out to be a door into another room, which is another world, that has neon cats in garbage bags. You pull a pram out and there's a slide in a tunnel that goes to another world. Oh my goodness. Going to places like this, where people built worlds inside worlds, really, really made me go. This is what I want to do, yeah yeah. 
 
23:32
My all-time favourite festival is a teeny, tiny little festival called The Town in rural Victoria. About 2,000 people go every year, set way up in the Upper Gippsland Mountains, and it's actually it's called the town because the whole festival is themed as a town. The whole festival is themed as a town. So there is a fake, Well, there is a real post office and there's a Centrelink and there's shops and there's a bakery, yeah. So yeah, there's lots of ways that you can theme things without necessarily heading into sort of like cosplay or, you know, like augmented reality territory. You can theme things using your imagination and you can create. 
 
24:30 - Alexis (Host)
Sometimes you need that external to unlock it yeah, yeah.
 
24:35 - Lima (Guest)
Um, the fantasy is as good as you want it to be yeah, oh, that's a good line that is a good line. 
 
24:43 - Alexis (Host)
One last question, if you could hear someone come on this podcast and answer these questions, who would it be and why? 
 
24:54 - Lima (Guest)
Oh my god, I'm so excited to answer this question. I'm so excited to answer this question. I spoke about a little festival called The Town that really inspired me to be an installation artist the creative director and founder of the Town, Michael Scarlett. If I heard an interview like this of his, I would be over the moon. Yeah, I would love, love to find out what. I would love to see what goes on in Michael's head to be able to produce the types of events that he does immersive events that he does. 
 
25:31 - Alexis (Host)
Amazing. Well, I will just have to see what I can do to make that happen. 
 
25:37 - Lima (Guest)
Please do Please do, please do. I guess you know a lot of just in closing, when people would come through my exhibits. They come through and they're often, you know, sort of awestruck and then they say, so, where did all this come from? And I said, well, it came from inside my head. All the things that you're seeing are the ideas from inside my head. Out of my head, yeah, and you know it's. It's such an honor to be able to do things like that, to feel like some people are enjoying the things that I come up with in my head. 
 
26:18 - Alexis (Host)
Oh, my goodness, and it's such a beautiful gift that we have as artists to be able to share what's going on in our head and be able to give it to others. 
 
26:28 - Lima (Guest)
Look, that's something that artificial intelligence is never, ever going to be able to replicate no, that's very true. Never, ever. Not in a million years. Yeah, I feel really excited for, yeah, what's going to come up next? 
 
26:40 - Alexis (Host)
Amazing. Well, I can't wait to see what you do next. It's just you're already doing amazing things and I'm just so chuffed. Thank you so much for coming through the creative door. It's been an absolute pleasure. You are such a gem. 
 
26:55 - Lima (Guest)
My pleasure Alexis, thanks for having me. 
 
27:00 - Alexis (Host)
Thanks for tuning in for another episode of Through the Creative Door. If you enjoy our episodes and find value in them, consider supporting us by making a donation. Just visit buymeacoffeecom/through the creative door or via the link in our Instagram bio where you can choose an amount and even write us a little message. Every little bit helps and we truly appreciate all of your support. But if you can't donate, no worries, you can still help us out by sharing our podcast with your friends and family and leaving a review on your favourite platform. Thanks so much for being part of our community and we'll catch you on the next episode. Bye. 

24 | Challenges Are Opportunities To Get Creative with Blake Williams

In this episode of Through the Creative Door, Alexis sits down with Blake Williams, a true creative powerhouse from Perth, Western Australia. Blake wears many hats, from his role as a radio announcer at Mix94.5 to being the director of Williams Creative, frontman and manager of corporate band PROOF, and producer/host of the nationally broadcasted music interview show The Scene. They dive into Blake's diverse career, exploring how he balances multiple creative roles and what keeps him inspired and moving forward. Whether it's his insights on managing creativity in the music industry, his thoughts on building meaningful collaborations and connections, or his approach to staying grounded in the chaos of it all, Blake shares his wealth of knowledge with energy and optimism. 
If you’d like to see more, you can follow Blake on Instagram: @ blakewilliams_au 
 
This episode was recorded on 27 August 2024 on the lands of the Wajuk Peoples. We hope that this episode inspires you as a creative person and as a human being.
Thanks for listening, catch you on the next episode.
Psst! We are always on the lookout for creative people to share their story and inspire others. Have you got someone in mind who would love to have a chat? Get in contact with us via Instagram @throughthecreativedoor
 
…
Creative resources from Blake Williams:
@ williamscreativeco 
@ thescenemusictv 
Let’s get social:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/throughthecreativedoor/ 
TikToc: https://www.tiktok.com/@ttcdpodcast
CREDITS
Created and Hosted by Alexis Naylor
Music by Alexis Naylor & Ruby Miguel
Edited and Produced by Ruby Miguel
—-------------------
00:09 - Alexis (Host)
Hello, my name is Alexis Naylor and I am your host here at Through the Creative Door. On behalf of myself and my guests, I would like to acknowledge the traditional owners and custodians on which this podcast is recorded and produced. Owners and custodians on which this podcast is recorded and produced. May we pay our respects to all First Nations people and acknowledge Elders, past and present. On this podcast, I'll be chatting to an array of creative guests, getting a glimpse into their worlds and having some honest and inspiring conversations along the way. I'm delighted to welcome you to Through the Creative Door. 
Hello Blake
 
00:51 - Blake (Guest)
Hello Alexis. How are you doing? 
 
00:53 - Alexis (Host)
I'm so good I am all sorts of emotions right now. I'm very, very chuffed that you said yes to coming onto Through the Creative Door. 
 
01:04 - Blake (Guest)
Well, listen, we're talking about creativity, which is something that I do every day, that a lot of people do every day, and it's good to talk about. 
 
01:12 - Alexis (Host)
For those listening. I need to at least even remotely touch the sides with your creative ventures, because you are such a talented bear. 
 
01:21 - Blake (Guest)
I've been around for a while. 
 
01:23 - Alexis (Host)
No, you just. I love that you are such an advocate for the arts but more importantly, you have demonstrated just how much of an advocate you are for live music and for musicians in Western Australia, which, as a musician, it's so lovely to have people that are advocating and pushing that forward. But that is one of many things that you do. Music is your first love, like you're a musician, you're the front man and the manager and everything of the corporate band Proof. 
 
01:57 - Blake (Guest)
Correct. 
 
01:57 - Alexis (Host)
Oh my God, you're an MC, you do radio, but you also do work for ABC sporadically as well. 
 
02:04 - Blake (Guest)
I mean, I think I mean I've been doing this for, you know, 18 years, something around about there and you end up doing a lot of different things and it all kind of seems like the same thing after a while. So, yeah, I'm on air with Mix, I do some freelance stuff with ABC for whatever shows they've got going on. We have a show on Foxtel Music, director of Channel 7's Telethon, run a company called Williams Creative which is half agency, half creative company, and we can talk about what that does because it's a big part of my life. Plus, yeah, proof the Band, and I'm exhausted just thinking about it, to be honest. 
 
02:37
But it's all music, it's all performance, it's all about pushing an industry forward and that's the performance side of my life. There's the other side, which is the advocacy side of not only music but also entertainment, arts and events, and so recently, as the president of the EIA, which is the Event Industry Association, which is all about putting events in front of government and going how do we get funding? How do we change legislation? How do we get grants? How do we make sure that creatives get grants that don't just, you know, fall by the wayside? So there's a lot of things that kind of fill the diary. But it's all positive and it's all in service of arts. 
 
03:11 - Alexis (Host)
Yes, yes, and I think that is the beautiful spark that you have, that that light that you're shining across the world is genuinely that. That is your massive motivator is just pushing the arts forward. 
 
03:30 - Blake (Guest)
Well, thank you, I appreciate it. It's about getting people. I mean it. It never ceases to amaze me that you know, you walk down to the Ellington on a Tuesday night and you see a world class jazz act and you go. This could be on the streets of New York, this could be anywhere in the world, but it's right here in Perth, the most isolated place on the planet. And it's hard because these artists could be anywhere, but they're playing here and to get that appreciation for what they're doing is difficult. 
 
03:51
And in a time when people's lives are so fragmented with the endless amount of entertainment, there are functions on Netflix which are just play something. I don't even want to know what it is, just play something. And when you're competing against so many different streaming services and different mediums, it's really hard to get people to focus on local art sometimes, and people just need to be reminded that this stuff is world class and you can see it any time of the week. And I will go to my deathbed pushing the same message. That's one thing they teach you in PR Find a message and stick to it and that’s what I’ve stuck to. 
 
04:31 - Alexis (Host)
What a message it is. So my first question and you might have multiple answers, but what does a creative space mean to you and why? 
 
04:41 - Blake (Guest)
Creative space. I think, yeah, it's going to be a fragmented answer because I think about sort of what I do and every, every avenue I would have, whether it's this radio studio or a tv studio or something on stage. I mean, they're all in different spaces and they're all completely different and require a different approach, have a different outcome, have a different approach, have a different outcome, have a different budget, have a different set of client expectations. And I think for me, what I've learned over the years is to take my creativity with me wherever I need to be. So this, for example so we're in a radio studio. 
 
05:19
When we're on air, I might have 15 seconds to make a creative break or a creative hook, or jump in between two songs and do something creative for 15 seconds. That's a very different task than being on stage for 45 minutes and creating a 45-minute creative set. So every location has a different set of parameters. I would love to have a creative space in terms of a creative share space office for the company, which is part of our plan in the future. But I think I've discovered over the years that I need to be able to get into my creative spot quickly, no matter where it might be, because sometimes it can be a really boring place. You could be in a pitch, in a whiteboard room with people who are not creative and you need to bring that and you need to show them why they should believe in your vision or hand over a lot of money or whatever the case is, or trust their brand with your crazy idea, and so inspiring people in different circumstances has become a skill set that I've developed over the years, simply because you're given so many different rooms to work in and you need to make it work, no matter where you are. 
 
06:30 - Alexis (Host)
Was there anything that sort of helped you, sort of ground yourself? Was there any tools or anything that you used to help you find that? 
 
06:40 - Blake (Guest)
I think if I kind of work backwards from things. So if I need, let's talk about, say, a creative pitch because we're doing a lot of that in our company, Williams Creative, at the moment where a client will go, we've got a certain amount of money and we want the end result to be a seven minute performance and hitting all of these different markers Go away and come up with a pitch. And sometimes these things are so ambiguous and you spend so much time with just a word. They go okay, base it around the word whatever, and so you come up with three or four different ideas and you then take those ideas into a room and you present those ideas. And I think working backwards and re-inspiring myself when I'm in the pitch moment is really important, because sometimes you'll do all of the creative work months before you do a pitch and then you walk into the pitch room and you're quite disconnected from that project now because you did it. 
 
07:35
So long ago and so we're having this really long lead time. So for me to get myself back into that moment, I would just spend an hour and go through the end result that I want it to be and then back to my processes and how I came to decisions on things and why we should use that color or why that song works, or we're changing this song into this key. We're taking it a major, we're making it into a minor and there's a reason behind it and just getting myself reacquainted and getting myself excited for what I want it to be and hopefully that then it comes down to the communication in the room. Can you sell it? And having different, I think, people. 
 
08:13
Another thing is people in that kind of space. They're often not creatives, the people you're selling these things to, so you can't go in with a lot of words. You need to go with different media. So we'll have a video or imagery or mood boards or sound samples so that one of these things might hit a nerve. Yeah, having different ways to approach the same thing is important from a sales point of view, but, yeah, just being able to jump in and feel excited about your ideas. 
 
08:42 - Alexis (Host)
I love this. It's such a frame of mind for you to go into each of these spaces. 
 
08:48 - Blake (Guest)
I think a frame of mind is a good way to frame it, because Pun intended, pun intended. 
 
08:53
Puns always intended. Because I think you know being a creative means you need to be adaptable and you're not always going to be able to do exactly what you want all of the time. Sometimes you will have a creative project that is yours and you can do whatever you want to, but often, in the world of budgets and having companies and making enough money to pay payroll, which is what we have to do in our company you need to work within parameters that are set for you, and so being able to go in clearly, consciously, and create an idea and run with an idea and jump into that moment is really important. 
 
09:34 - Alexis (Host)
Amazing, amazing. Your lifespan of creative ventures is huge, but is there one thing in particular that you can pinpoint that you're most proud of creating, and how did that come about? 
 
09:49 - Blake (Guest)
I'm really proud of the company we've created around being creative. I mean, the company is called Williams Creative it's right there in the title and I think I've worked in a range of different situations where I haven't enjoyed the people I've had to work with, and that happens every now and then. You might have a project and it's really hard, or you feel like your back's up against the wall and ideas aren't landing, or, whatever the case is, when we started this company two years ago, we really had the opportunity to build it from the ground up in the way that I wanted it to be and the people I wanted to involve round up in the way that I wanted it to be and the people I wanted to involve. And I think now we're at this beautiful point where we have amazing talented people around us, which is one thing, but also people I want to work with and want to work with people again and again because they're good people, and I wish there had been an opportunity for me many years ago to be in something like that, because I think I have always not every project, but a majority of projects I've worked on in my life. 
 
10:51
I've started so I wanted a TV show. No one would give me the opportunity, so I started it myself. I wanted a radio show. No one would. I did it myself. I've simply been in that mode for so long because I haven't. You know, it's not that I'm difficult to work with. I think the opposite, to be honest. But there's you need to back yourself sometimes and do things the way that you see them playing out, and I'm really proud of the way that we've created the company now that we have these great people around us and it's facilitated some really amazing projects. 
 
11:27 - Alexis (Host)
Well said. On the flip side of things that you're proud of, I'm intrigued what you can share about something that's challenged your creativity, and what do you reckon the major lesson of that was? 
 
11:43 - Blake (Guest)
Yeah, okay. So I think live performance often goes awry. I mean there are things, there are processes I've put in place over the years to negate things going wrong as best I can. Things always do go wrong, but it's trying to limit that or at least have plans again to prepare for things to go wrong. But I think, from a challenging creative point of view, sometimes the big concept pieces can be really hard to finalize a concept for. 
 
12:16
So there was one actually, particularly a few years ago, where we had been approached by a company to do a big opening performance for them. So two performances actually on this one night. The brief I was given was one word. I had a one word brief, one word that I had to make everything connect to, and they'd given me a fairly good budget to do it. And I nothing, nothing came like, just nothing at all, and I would spend. I'd go okay, today's the day, I'm going to finalize a basic concept today. Nothing would happen. I would spend an hour on it, I'd spend two hours on it. I would try the technique of like I'm going to think about it when I go to sleep. When I wake up, there's going to be an idea there. Nothing would happen. 
 
12:55
And I was about a week away from having to do this pitch and I had zero, just not even an inkling about what I was going to do. And then it starts to build and you get, you feel pressure, and you feel stress, like what if I actually can't think of anything? What if this concept is, or this word that I need to bring everything back to is just too esoteric and I can't make something for it? And so I said to my wife, I said to Lisa we need to go away, we need to need to get, I need to, I need a change of scenery, I need to get out of the studio, I need to get out of work, I need to get out of Perth. 
 
13:25 - Alexis (Host)
Something's got to change. 
 
13:28 - Blake (Guest)
I need a fresh perspective. So we went down south and the word that I needed to bring everything back to was the word flourish. And we went and stayed in this little cottage in Boronup Forest and in Margaret River and I walked out in the morning and I walked through these trees that were scorched. There'd been a bushfire that had come through and little pops of green were coming through these trees and I sat there for ages and I was like, wait a minute, a little tiny spark of an idea. And from there we sat down, we had a couple of bottles of wine, we went through a bunch of different ideas based on the surroundings that we were in, and eventually, by the time we got home and we drove home thinking about ideas, we got home, put a concept together and it's probably one of the best I think we've ever come up with, but only because I think sometimes you need to force yourself into a different perspective. If things aren't working, that's okay, Pause it. You don't have to solve all of those problems right now. Get up, go to a different spot, go to a different place, try a different technique, a different angle spot. Go to a different place. Try a different technique, a different angle. You know, try something different that you haven't done. 
 
14:30
So for me, on that particular situation, I needed to be geographically removed from where I was and I actually brought this up when I did the pitch. I said I couldn't think of anything and I did this. I went to this other place and then this idea came and someone in the meeting said yeah, but that idea only came to you because you were willing to accept an idea. It's not. If you had been down there all the time would you have seen what was there? 
 
14:54
And I thought it's really interesting how being in a different headspace and being somewhere physically different can bring up different creative ideas. And then it's recognizing that that is an idea and then running with it. And I remember thinking there was like a little tiny spark light bulb moment that went off and went wait a minute, what about this? And that was the start of the entire performance that we ended up putting together, which had about 40 creatives in it on stage, so a big piece that we ended up putting together. So, yeah, it's amazing where that inspiration can hit, but you have to be open and willing to change things up and be flexible. 
 
15:31 - Alexis (Host)
And I do think it's like you know, one of the parts of being a creative is being able to apply yourself and spend the time and be, you know, present in that space to lock yourself away. But we all still need to live a life and otherwise like you said you're not open to being inspired by anything outside. 
 
15:51 - Blake (Guest)
Yeah, it's, I don't. When you find out how to do that, let me know. 
 
15:56 - Alexis (Host)
Oh, I don't know about that. Oh, my goodness. 
 
15:59 - Blake (Guest)
I, we the uh being separating creativity, or separating this kind of work from normal life is incredibly hard, and I don't know anyone that nails it. To be honest, I don't know how you can switch it off and switch it back on. It seeps into every part of your life, but it's hard. It's really hard, especially what I find when we're in pitch mode and everything is to do with a show you're putting together and it doesn't have to be a creative pitch like this, it could be a theatre show. You know, I think it's really natural to get all consumed by these things that you put together, because they are intrinsic to who you are, and, at the end of the day, you're going to be on stage and you need to deliver it, and so you need to live it, eat it and breathe it. That's an important part of it, right? 
 
16:48 - Alexis (Host)
Oh, so true. Now, do you have something sentimental, or is there possibly an object that you can't live without while you're coming up with creative things or working? And what might that be, and why? 
 
17:06 - Blake (Guest)
No, I don't think there is. To be honest, I think again because the creative jobs that I have take me to completely different places with different parameters. There's not something that I come back to again and again. I think if I was doing and I've been religious about these sorts of things before Like, if I was doing a lot of writing when I was younger, when I was at high school, I remember the first thing I did was it was drama and we would write short stories or plays or skits or whatever the case was, and that's what I loved. 
 
17:40
I loved, you know, Monty Python and Fawlty Towers and these sort of, you know, skit-based comedy things. Yes, you know, you'd start an idea and sometimes it would be shit and sometimes it might be half okay, but there was definitely a process in that and we would write every one in the same like journal. It was part of the religiousness of doing something like that and creating something. So if I was doing one thing, I think I would have things that I would go back to, but because in a day I might work on five different projects in five different locations with five different people, there's nothing that I bring myself to. 
 
18:13 - Alexis (Host)
Don't have any lucky socks. I don't. 
 
18:15 - Blake (Guest)
And, to be honest, it's the lucky socks that's been the secret to my success, my Coles $2.50 lucky socks. But I think I actually I purposefully change up my schedule and I don't like to get stuck in the same way of doing things. I like to change the way that I do things, quite often to the point where it can frustrate other people. In theatre, in the theatre world everyone they call it tracks in theatre. So your character track and you leave your green room at a certain point. You go to a certain point on stage. You never change your track. So everyone knows for the backstage choreography. 
 
18:54 - Alexis (Host)
They know exactly where you're going to be at what time. 100% Perfect. 
 
18:57 - Blake (Guest)
When we were doing We Will Rock You at Crown, I would change where I would start not on stage, but I would go to my dressing room at a different time. I would get my mic at a different time. I'd get my makeup at a different time. I never liked to be in the same process. I would change it up every single show. So I never felt comfortable. I never felt complacent and I think that's a big thing for the way I like to operate. I like to be on the edge all the time. It's not good for anxiety and it's not good for trying to sleep after gigs. That's just the way it works. It's just the way it works. I know it's not good. Don't use that advice. 
 
19:35 - Alexis (Host)
What did I say? Do as I say, not as I do. That's right. 
 
19:37 - Blake (Guest)
Yeah, these are all the mistakes I've made. 
 
19:42 - Alexis (Host)
Well, that is a great segue into my next question. 
 
19:46 - Blake (Guest)
What other mistakes have you made? Top 10 bad things to do. 
 
19:52 - Alexis (Host)
If you could give one piece of advice, one nugget of gold to another creative, what would it be? 
 
20:00 - Blake (Guest)
I think sometimes the most simple things are what I always come back to. I think with creativity there's two things. One, don't aim for perfect, especially with creative projects. If you aim to be perfect, you are going to find a million reasons to stop something because it simply isn't there. And John Cleese said this a million times. He was like it's the death of creativity, trying to be perfect. 
 
20:26
I think just go with an idea and just see where it takes you and at the end of the day, like, have fun with it. Creativity is a. You know there are times when things are serious and you know, depending on what you're trying to do and the art piece you're trying to make and sure, on those times you know, sure, be respectful and be mindful. But I think for a lot of the time we can get so carried away with needing to get to a deadline or what a client expectation, or how are we going to make this work in a budget and it's all this pressurized situation. But sometimes just have fun. 
 
21:00
Just most of the best ideas I think I've ever had have been stupid. And then you bring them back from a crazy point like start at 11 and you might end up at a 7, which is probably where it should be. So, yeah, just don't, don't take it too seriously all the time. And the other thing for me is and we kind of mentioned this earlier do the work, and the work will take care of itself, like I it's. It is saved me hundreds of times in shows and in whole range of different types of shows, so not just at a band gig or an MC thing or you know, live on air or whatever the case is Like. If it saved me constantly, if I prepare to, if I prepare knowing that something is going to fail when it does invariably fail and it will, you've got a backup plan and you don't have to freak out in that moment in front of you know however many people are watching. So they're my little nuggets of advice. 
 
21:54 - Alexis (Host)
Oh my God, they're such good ones. If someone wanted to develop their creative process, yes, like, do what you do in all of the. 
 
22:08 - Blake (Guest)
I'm too far down this path now to turn around. You're like I can't change it now. I can't. 
 
22:17 - Alexis (Host)
Is there any resources that you would recommend? 
 
22:22 - Blake (Guest)
You know, I think sometimes the best place to start or not to start, do some investigation and some research first but is to go to the people that you really admire the work of and ask them questions. People are a lot more willing to give time than I think people think. People go these guys, these ladies. There's so much work, they've got so much on their calendar, they couldn't give me 10 minutes and I guarantee well, maybe not guarante. 
 
22:47 - Alexis (Host)
Can I have that in writing?  
 
22:50 - Blake (Guest)
Sure, sure, I think invariably, people are happy to discuss and help people out and answer questions, as long as I think this is what the person asking the question needs to be. They need to be organized, need to be punctual, they need to do all of that stuff so that you are using the least amount of time possible. And I'm happy to answer questions from people who go, hey, how did you do this, or how did this work, or where would you recommend I start on this particular thing, because it's really hard and I've been lucky in things that I've done but it's come with a lot of hard work to get places and a lot of people to convince of things, and there's gatekeepers at every part of every industry and you continually need to work around them. And you know, I'm a male 40-year-old guy and it's been hard for me and there's a lot of advantage to being a male 40-year-old guy, so it's hard for everybody to get where they want to go. 
 
23:43
But there are people out there that are absolutely willing to answer questions and to help people, because for me, at the end of the day, I want an arts industry, a media industry, a music industry to be the best possible version of itself that it can be, and the only way to get to that spot is to be a bit more open with answering questions and helping people up. I really don't get this whole. Well, I did the hard yards, you do the hard yards, I mean. Yes, we all have done hard yards and they're intrinsic to being a great artist. I think you know you need to do the shit gigs, you need to have the rejections. They're a really important part of the process, but to a degree, you know, at some point you also need to help people up. 
 
24:23 - Alexis (Host)
But being authentic and being open to your community to share knowledge is not giving things on a silver platter for someone else. 
 
24:31 - Blake (Guest)
That's very true
 
24:33 - Alexis (Host)
It's purely just. You know, if people want to have knowledge, eat it up and run with it. Like you said, there are people there that if you are willing to ask, they're willing to deliver 
 
24:38 - Blake (Guest)
Yeah, that's right. 100% and you know, yes, the failures are a really important part of any process in any industry, and I think, especially in performance, because at the end of the day, you will be on stage and you will have to deliver. And if you can't, and you're not ready, or whatever the case is, then you will fail and it will hurt and you may not want to get back up again. That's why you don't aim for the stars straight away. You build yourself incrementally. So you've got these little scars and they'll be okay. You'll be okay when you get knocked down. 
 
25:17
But, yeah, asking questions and getting more information and having a bit more knowledge about why you're choosing things and how to get to a destination is really important. There's absolutely no roadmap for this industry. I don't really know anyone who is doing what I'm doing, but there are people out there. But I would love to have conversations with other creatives, kind of like what you are doing, and ask how did you get there, or how did this work, or why did that fail, or why did this succeed? What specifically about it worked so well or didn't work well? And it's possibly a conversation that you know, maybe through a podcast like this, people are more willing to talk about things, but it's just have a conversation. Yeah, people are happy to answer questions, mostly. 
 
26:05 - Alexis (Host)
One extra question for you. 
 
26:06 - Blake (Guest)
Okay, sure. 
 
26:08 - Alexis (Host)
If you could hear anyone come on this podcast and answer these questions, who would it be and why?
 
26:14 - Blake (Guest)
Who would it be? So I was having a look at the people that you've had on here and it's great. So they cover a variety of different disciplines, and I think I would like to see someone from a theatre background. Have you had a theatre director? 
 
26:35 - Alexis (Host)
No, I have not yet. 
 
26:36 - Blake (Guest)
I would like to see someone in that world. Because I think, like theatre is the culmination of so many disciplines. You know you've got acting, you know dancing, music, musicality, but also all of the other things stage design and direction and budgeting and tour planning and it kind of is like I see it, as if you can make a theatre show work with 100 moving parts 35 times a month. You've kind of got some stuff figured out and there's a lot of people that do a really good job in that space. So I'd like to see some theatre directors, I think. 
 
27:12 - Alexis (Host)
Oh my goodness, Blake, thank you so much for coming on Through the Creative Door. This has been just a dream. 
 
27:18 - Blake (Guest)
Thank you so much for having me and thanks for coming down to the studio. I didn't have to go anywhere. 
 
27:23 - Alexis (Host)
I love it. 
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